"Socially Competitive" Colleges

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Penn.

At a lot of top schools, kids arrive having been rock stars at their high school. A lot are immediately prepared to try to run everything in college, too, but it's just not possible when there are so many Type A kids in one place.

Fraternities, sororities, eating clubs, etc., are inherently competitive to get into.

Sometimes parties are hard to get into -- you have to know someone.

So it’s a competitiveness in a social context, not academically? Competitive to be friends with the right people kind of thing?

Yes. But a “friends with the right people kind of thing” affects access to important clubs, activities, etc, which is how a lot of people get the right jobs, and then move up in the world. For the rest of their lives. So it’s more than who they hang out with on Saturday. If you aren’t an extreme climber, professionally or socially, this doesn’t matter.

Is it really that serious though?
You make it sound like it will dramatically impact the course of your life - if you pick a school that’s socially competitive and you aren’t able to manage the grind and the sharp elbowed-ness and compete?

It will dramatically impact your life if you can compete.

Failing to compete will only close doors if you are looking to enter certain doors, and don’t have any other keys.

Exactly. Not making those connections won’t leave you worse off than if you hadn’t gone to college, but making them will open doors that even the most prestigious degree can’t. Take Bucknell, for example. It’s a great school, but it’s not HYPMS or WASP in pure academic prestige. However, its alumni network and Wall Street connections rival any of those schools. If you can tap into that, the world is your oyster. And the cool part is that Bucknell’s social scene isn’t as cutthroat as those others schools. Its network of elites is accessible to anyone willing to put in the effort.

Hello again Bucknell booster…always makes me wonder if is this an avid alum or if it’s the school who posts constantly in this forum.

It has to be the school. No one thinks about Bucknell this much.

Agree. I looked at its CDS. Very low stats. b students 1100-1300 sats. Why would Wall Street want those kids?

Bucknell is test-preferred. Look at the percentage of kids who submit. Way higher than other elite schools. The CDS's that show 1400+ averages are smoke and mirrors once you see that fewer than 20% of applicants submit. If you included the scores from the test-optional set, the average would be no higher than Bucknell's and probably lower. Bucknell students are all-around awesome: academically, socially, the whole package. That's why firms hoover then up on The Street.

[Anonymous]

Yale, Yale, and Yale. Our tour guide sounded miserable describing club and opportunity competitiveness. Every person from DC’s school that’s gone to Yale whose come back to talk about their experience has discussed it being very competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale, Yale, and Yale. Our tour guide sounded miserable describing club and opportunity competitiveness. Every person from DC’s school that’s gone to Yale whose come back to talk about their experience has discussed it being very competitive.

Do they actually enjoy this? It's a G-rated form of masochism, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Any school with a large Greek system. That is *literally* a social circle that you compete to get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn.

At a lot of top schools, kids arrive having been rock stars at their high school. A lot are immediately prepared to try to run everything in college, too, but it's just not possible when there are so many Type A kids in one place.

Fraternities, sororities, eating clubs, etc., are inherently competitive to get into.

Sometimes parties are hard to get into -- you have to know someone.

So it’s a competitiveness in a social context, not academically? Competitive to be friends with the right people kind of thing?

Yes. But a “friends with the right people kind of thing” affects access to important clubs, activities, etc, which is how a lot of people get the right jobs, and then move up in the world. For the rest of their lives. So it’s more than who they hang out with on Saturday. If you aren’t an extreme climber, professionally or socially, this doesn’t matter.

Is it really that serious though?
You make it sound like it will dramatically impact the course of your life - if you pick a school that’s socially competitive and you aren’t able to manage the grind and the sharp elbowed-ness and compete?

It will dramatically impact your life if you can compete.

Failing to compete will only close doors if you are looking to enter certain doors, and don’t have any other keys.

Exactly. Not making those connections won’t leave you worse off than if you hadn’t gone to college, but making them will open doors that even the most prestigious degree can’t. Take Bucknell, for example. It’s a great school, but it’s not HYPMS or WASP in pure academic prestige. However, its alumni network and Wall Street connections rival any of those schools. If you can tap into that, the world is your oyster. And the cool part is that Bucknell’s social scene isn’t as cutthroat as those others schools. Its network of elites is accessible to anyone willing to put in the effort.

Hello again Bucknell booster…always makes me wonder if is this an avid alum or if it’s the school who posts constantly in this forum.

It has to be the school. No one thinks about Bucknell this much.

Agree. I looked at its CDS. Very low stats. b students 1100-1300 sats. Why would Wall Street want those kids?

Bucknell is test-preferred. Look at the percentage of kids who submit. Way higher than other elite schools. The CDS's that show 1400+ averages are smoke and mirrors once you see that fewer than 20% of applicants submit. If you included the scores from the test-optional set, the average would be no higher than Bucknell's and probably lower. Bucknell students are all-around awesome: academically, socially, the whole package. That's why firms hoover then up on The Street.

Backoffice "Street" sure...
Bucknell does not show up on ANYONE's Wall Street Pipeline list.
even SMU does...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any school with a large Greek system. That is *literally* a social circle that you compete to get into.

Not really...if the Greek system accounts for a massive %age then in fact it becomes not exclusive at all.

It's not hard to join one of the Frats/Sororities at Washington & Lee...again, the only kids that don't join don't want to join, not that they were rejected by all. 70% of Princeton is in an Eating Club...the 30% don't want to join, not that they were rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots are. I know parents who have described SMU that way, and UVA. Others say UVA is more preprofessional/club competition, not social.

There seem to be enough diverse social activities at UVA to suit most types. Our friend's daughter did not rush, and instead is very outdoorsy and is in a club that does kayaking and hiking and things and is quite happy.

[Anonymous]

Socially competitive would describe places like Vanderbilt, UVA, Duke, Tulane, Ole Miss, Penn, Cornell, Lehigh, Middlebury, Richmond, SMU, TCU, Alabama, USC -there are many schools that fall into this category, but generally they are places where many rich kids go and there is a distinctive forced social hierarchy driven by only a small part of the population .. some kids will care about this and some kids won't. The problem is the kid that wants to be a part of a certain friend group and feels left out off the bat. The other problem is the way the kids signal to each other through material wealth (golden goose shoes, Godard bags, Gucci, Aviator Nation sweats etc, fancy cars du jour (Jeep, G-Wagon, Bronco, Range Rover) or whatever.. If you arrive not knowing the cues, and don't have the money to play the game, you can feel very left out. It's really ugly actually. Greeks and clubs drive a lot of it, but even at a place like Middlebury it's the athletes and club sports that rule and pick and choose who is in, who is out, which kids get to go to parties etc. More inclusive/less socially competitive schools would be places like Kenyon, Pomona, Oberlin, Northwestern, Brandeis, Holy Cross, Rice, Davidson. Colorado College, University of VT, William and Mary, CMU.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socially competitive would describe places like Vanderbilt, UVA, Duke, Tulane, Ole Miss, Penn, Cornell, Lehigh, Middlebury, Richmond, SMU, TCU, Alabama, USC -there are many schools that fall into this category, but generally they are places where many rich kids go and there is a distinctive forced social hierarchy driven by only a small part of the population .. some kids will care about this and some kids won't. The problem is the kid that wants to be a part of a certain friend group and feels left out off the bat. The other problem is the way the kids signal to each other through material wealth (golden goose shoes, Godard bags, Gucci, Aviator Nation sweats etc, fancy cars du jour (Jeep, G-Wagon, Bronco, Range Rover) or whatever.. If you arrive not knowing the cues, and don't have the money to play the game, you can feel very left out. It's really ugly actually. Greeks and clubs drive a lot of it, but even at a place like Middlebury it's the athletes and club sports that rule and pick and choose who is in, who is out, which kids get to go to parties etc. More inclusive/less socially competitive schools would be places like Kenyon, Pomona, Oberlin, Northwestern, Brandeis, Holy Cross, Rice, Davidson. Colorado College, University of VT, William and Mary, CMU.....

This does not track with my kid’s experience at Midd or what we’ve seen when visiting. Friend group is a mix of recruited athletes, club athletes and kids not on a team. The social house parties are open to all and while there are a lot of wealthy kids like most slacs, they are driving hand me down cars and wearing thrifted or REI stuff. The moms may have $$$ purses and sneakers but I’m not seeing this signaling or social competitivness with the kids. I do think it might be socially tricky not to be an active and fit person there or at Colorado College, but would not lump with the ivies or southern schools

[Anonymous]

Washington & Lee