High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mcps stopped teaching grammar years ago.

And the reading blocks where teachers cycle through a million groups isn’t effective.

ICYMI: kids at catholic school write well…because the old fashioned way of educating kids (spelling, vocabulary, grammar, reading AND writing) is effective.

#duh

Exactly. It seems like MCPS is all about social education, not academic instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

+1 I think there was less oversight and standardized testing then, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

Ask teachers what else they have to do in their planning time that teachers weren't doing when you went to school. Ask them how many of their students need specific accommodations and modifications for every single thing because they have IEPs, 504 plans, EL plans. Ask them how many planning periods they spend in parent meetings or data meetings of whatever BS meeting admin comes up with to justify their positions. My mom was a teacher when you were in school. She had a teacher' guide, textbook, and workbook for every subject she taught in ES. She didn't write lesson plans. That's what the teacher's guide was for. She didn't need to accommodate anyone. She walked in the door 10 minutes before her students and left 15 after. The only grading was weekly spelling tests (I usually graded them because it was fun) and an occasional math or science test. She rarely met with parents. She never had data meetings. She just taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

+1 I think there was less oversight and standardized testing then, though.

There wasn’t NCLB, but we did state testing. This was in NY, where we did Regents exams in high school and state testing at certain grade levels before that. It wasn’t as frequent as it is now, but it definitely existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

Ask teachers what else they have to do in their planning time that teachers weren't doing when you went to school. Ask them how many of their students need specific accommodations and modifications for every single thing because they have IEPs, 504 plans, EL plans. Ask them how many planning periods they spend in parent meetings or data meetings of whatever BS meeting admin comes up with to justify their positions. My mom was a teacher when you were in school. She had a teacher' guide, textbook, and workbook for every subject she taught in ES. She didn't write lesson plans. That's what the teacher's guide was for. She didn't need to accommodate anyone. She walked in the door 10 minutes before her students and left 15 after. The only grading was weekly spelling tests (I usually graded them because it was fun) and an occasional math or science test. She rarely met with parents. She never had data meetings. She just taught.

Your mom didn’t have to accommodate anyone? She had zero special needs kids in her classes? I call BS. Kids in the 90s had ADHD and dyslexia, for one.

But at the end of the day, it’s patently ridiculous to pretend teachers have zero time to teach grammar or give feedback on student writing.

[Anonymous]

Writing instruction is very poor in MCPS. Some years my kids had teachers who went above and beyond curriculum and that helped but it seemed grammar wasn’t explicitly taught. My oldest was a natural writer. She seemed to just pick it up on her own. But she was also an avid reader and enjoyed writing which helped. My older son was a terrible writer which I attributed to an LD but private middle school changed that. He learned to write clearly and concisely, finally grasped the rules of grammar and became adept at supporting his arguments. HS journalism further polished his writing and I can say that he is now one of the best writers I know. My younger son who was in public school all the way through was getting As in MS English and yet his essays were horrible. Poor grammar, poor word choice, repetitive, no support, etc. Remembering my older son’s experience with jouralism, I encouraged him to take the class when he reached HS. I saw a huge improvement over that year. For the first time, he’s excited about writing so maybe try journalism if your school offers it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP Lang and AP Lit are the English classes where students are held to higher standards of writing. Unfortunately they don't come until 11th and 12 th grades.

I wish this were true. My kid took AP Lang and the writing assignments that he got A’s on was riddled with grammatical errors and he wasn’t dinged or corrected on it. MCPS does not care to teach grammar or writing structure as a philosophical choice.

[Anonymous]

Amazing to read this thread and then see all the posters crap on people who send their kids to private school.

[Anonymous]

Kids were called hyperactive back in the 80s and nothing special was done to accommodate them. My brother probably would've been diagnosed with ADHD back then. His teachers would send him on errands to get him out of their classroom. They'd also send him to other teacher's rooms for a break.

Teachers didn't have to accommodate anyone. If a kid needed specialized reading instruction, someone else (reading specialist, etc) outside the classroom worked with them.

We have more admin than ever but teacher shortages. The explosion of kids with a diagnosis means the teachers shoulder the burden of accommodating every student. Someone needs to be creating modifications for every single assignment but it shouldn't be the teachers. That's unrealistic and extremely time consuming.

[Anonymous]

Special needs kids went to their own classes and special schools. they did not interrupt the education of regular kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant, and I learned English from my home country. They taught grammar, structured writing, and local/foreign teachers taught in English at ES/MS/High school. They did not teach phonics. My DH is from here. Would that be beneficial if I tried to teach my ES kids the way I learned English from home country to supplement them on writing and grammar? Like spend 15 mins a day? I think I will first to break down a sentence in different parts & tense. Make it worse or just do it?

My English is not as good as DH. I find out that a lot of popular books that my kids read are not written in a correct grammatical way, including the ones teacher's recommendation. Teachers do not correct grammar and spelling, and kids told me that those are not important......because teachers do not mark them wrong.

This is a huge problem and I see this with my kids.

MCPS wants the books to be more ‘accessible’ and offer diverse perspectives, which sometimes means that they are not written very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Special needs kids went to their own classes and special schools. they did not interrupt the education of regular kids.

God forbid my kid with ADHD and dyslexia interrupt your precious child’s education.

[Anonymous]

Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids were called hyperactive back in the 80s and nothing special was done to accommodate them. My brother probably would've been diagnosed with ADHD back then. His teachers would send him on errands to get him out of their classroom. They'd also send him to other teacher's rooms for a break.

Teachers didn't have to accommodate anyone. If a kid needed specialized reading instruction, someone else (reading specialist, etc) outside the classroom worked with them.

We have more admin than ever but teacher shortages. The explosion of kids with a diagnosis means the teachers shoulder the burden of accommodating every student. Someone needs to be creating modifications for every single assignment but it shouldn't be the teachers. That's unrealistic and extremely time consuming.

Do you think that sending a kid on errands to get them out of the classroom is a good way of handling kids with special needs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

Because MCPS is a low expectations school system.

Anyone with the means to do so should be pursuing other options. If you don’t, then don’t pretend you care about education.