US Olympic Soccer mens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

You do realize that not every player in every country all over the world plays in an Academy? You talk about these academies like they are utopia. Do you know how good your kid has to be to play in one of these academies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

You do realize that not every player in every country all over the world plays in an Academy? You talk about these academies like they are utopia. Do you know how good your kid has to be to play in one of these academies?

The PP used the equivalent of a Bethesda as an example, so obviously they're not talking about Academies.

That said, do you have personal knowledge and experience on European academy players standards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

Before even addressing the rest of your diatribe, provide us with the evidence of a single grass roots youth club in Europe that costs $3,400 for tuition only.

As for your Spanish coaches bashing, they don't have their own UEFA B or A or Pro licenses. It is the same for all of Europe, so I don't know how there licenses are watered down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Anyone who says Spain isn't producing top level players in large numbers is obviously ignorant or biased and has an axe to grind.

Might as well say top level players aren't coming out of Africa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Anyone who says Spain isn't producing top level players in large numbers is obviously ignorant or biased and has an axe to grind.

Might as well say top level players aren't coming out of Africa

Not saying Spain doesn't produce top talent they just aren't the best at it. Brazil, argentine, Italy, France, Germany are ahead of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Spain does it right from managers to players. Look at the results-WC, Euros, champions leagues(club, managers and players), EPL, La Liga, players, player development, women’s, men’s, etc. Everyone talks about Barca and development but RM does it as well. If the English or Germans want to win WC or Euros they need to copy the Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Anyone who says Spain isn't producing top level players in large numbers is obviously ignorant or biased and has an axe to grind.

Might as well say top level players aren't coming out of Africa

Not saying Spain doesn't produce top talent they just aren't the best at it. Brazil, argentine, Italy, France, Germany are ahead of them.

Provide the numbers to substantiate your argument please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

What most DCUM posters don’t understand is that their child is not good enough to be at a professional, European Academy or the competitive equivalent in United States.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

What most DCUM posters don’t understand is that their child is not good enough to be at a professional, European Academy or the competitive equivalent in United States.

Is it most or majority? (me included haha)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Anyone who says Spain isn't producing top level players in large numbers is obviously ignorant or biased and has an axe to grind.

Might as well say top level players aren't coming out of Africa

Not saying Spain doesn't produce top talent they just aren't the best at it. Brazil, argentine, Italy, France, Germany are ahead of them.

No Spain is way ahead of them all. Brazil and Argentina players leave and go to Spain as soon as they can. The big complaint is the Latin American players style is not Latin any more but Spanish. Italy, France and Germany results and players prove you wrong.

Spain is the clear epicenter of Soccer and it is not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

How far removed are you from soccer?

You think there are Bethesda SC equivalent clubs in Holland, France or Spain where parents are spending north of $3000 just for tuition and getting to play on teams with coaches that have minimal licenses?

Yes. Absolutely there are. They have club systems too, for the kids that don’t play in the professional team academies.

And yes, they also have coaches with minimal licenses. Collette from Chambery playing on a club team doesn’t get the UEFA A coach…if her club is lucky enough to have a UEFA A, they’re probably the technical director.

Licensing levels in many European countries are extremely hard climb. England for example only allows a handful of coaches to sit for the A certification annually - regardless of checking the boxes. 100 candidates might apply, but they only let 5 sit, etc.

Spain allows many more, but the practical must be done entirely in fluent Spanish - making it difficult for non-Spaniard to gain there A via 2nd party UEFA counties. Making a glut of over-credentialed / under skilled Spanish coaches - hence the proliferation of private academies in Spain AND the expatriation of “Spanish Gurus” to other countries - US included.

lol sure. Maybe the Spanish are doing it right?

In 2017, Spain boasted a whopping 15,089 coaches who held either the Uefa Pro or Uefa A qualification. The numbers are extraordinary, especially when compared to the 1,796 qualified coaches in England. The prices tell their own story. Whereas the Spanish A licence costs a mere £960 and the Pro licence costs £1,070, enrolling on the A licence in England costs £3,645 and a staggering £9,890 to complete the Pro licence – if there are any places available on the handful of courses at St George’s Park.

After applying for the Uefa B course in England nine times and receiving a rejection letter every time, I made a decision. I had grown up on the physical English game, which prioritised guts and grit over style and guile, but I had become mesmerised by the football produced by Johan Cruyff, Pep Guardiola, Marcelo Bielsa, Luis Aragonés and Vicente del Bosque. Spanish football was unrivalled both technically and tactically, and its coaches were climbing up the ladder. I wanted to do the same. So I started taking Spanish language classes and uprooted in the summer of 2014.

Within 10 days of arriving in Catalonia – each of which I spent visiting clubs – I was invited to join the coaching staff of an Under-15s team. I coached in the evenings and taught English in the day to fund my own studies. Two seasons later – after the lows of losing in the Spanish Cup final (played live on national TV), the highs of away days at Barcelona’s famous La Masia academy and hundreds of hours spent learning about the exhilarating language, culture and structure of the Spanish game (and following three more rejected applications to enrol on the English course) – I felt ready to take on Spain’s Uefa B course. Truthfully, I could not have been further from it.

To my consternation, pedagogy was the subject of the first module, with psychology, sociology and biology quickly following. Specialised lecturers delivered each subject and I was told to leave my boots and tactics board at home until these areas were covered and examined. If my mind wasn’t already frazzled by the academic nature of the course, by the time we got on to the methodology, technical and tactical work on the pitch, I was perplexed by the meticulous details and minutiae that exist in this game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jan/28/why-i-left-england-and-moved-to-spain-to-become-a-football-coach

The Spanish do it right as shown by their results and their domination of the EPL. This is a good read if you want to get a feel for the Spanish Spanish A licence.

Yes, Spain has the most UEFA titles but Spain doesn't do it right. Real Madrid and Barca spend the most money to bring in the best players who were trained elsewhere. The best homegrown talent is from Brazil and Argentina. If anyone does it right, it's those countries.

Anyone who says Spain isn't producing top level players in large numbers is obviously ignorant or biased and has an axe to grind.

Might as well say top level players aren't coming out of Africa

Not saying Spain doesn't produce top talent they just aren't the best at it. Brazil, argentine, Italy, France, Germany are ahead of them.

No Spain is way ahead of them all. Brazil and Argentina players leave and go to Spain as soon as they can. The big complaint is the Latin American players style is not Latin any more but Spanish. Italy, France and Germany results and players prove you wrong.

Spain is the clear epicenter of Soccer and it is not even close.

Ha, they don't go for training. They go for money.