US Olympic Soccer mens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a prospective player's parents have to pay 5-10k a year for their kid to be seen, we will never be able to compete.

How much do you think it costs to develop a pro player? Not even a top league pro?

Most academies estimate it to be around $250k minimum. FIFA requires a 5% (minimum) training fee be sent to the academy when the player goes pro - and that fee keeps going for every transfer until that player is 24yo. So the academies are fine with that, because it all balances out to stay in business.

If that’s what you want, you can get a job in one of 47 different European countries, establish residency and try your luck there, where as outside talent, it’s much harder to break into the system.

In the US the $250k (minimum!) is largely footed by families. But the barrier to entry is lower - everyone gets a shot! And if you can’t afford it, but you’re a genuine baller, or you’ve got clear potential, the clubs will sponsor you!

I held my DD out of a tournament that looked to be a shit show (it turned out to be, and glad we opted out) and the owner of the club offered to pay for everything just to get her there because “they needed her” - and I don’t have a “can’t afford it” problem - there is ALWAYS money and opportunity if your kid can ball in the US.

BUT if your kid can’t ball, then yeah, you gotta pay to be seen, and probably more than the ECNL teams do to attend a showcase…because you’re going to have to go to 10 ID camps to get the eyeballs the ECNL team got at 1 event. And if your kid can’t ball then they also wouldn’t have a shot in Europe…and guess what…you’d end up at a pay-to-play academy there too! But! Without a pathway to the pros OR college! And Yes, Europe has pay academies too! It’s not all “free for students, paid for by EPL Club X”

(Guess how much DC United Academy costs?…same as the European academies…it’s just in dollars not Euros)

Everyone does not get a shot. That makes no sense. Euro clubs only pay to develop already talented players. Lots of kids never play here, because barrier to entry in soccer is too high.

[Anonymous]

I see parents on DCUM demanding to have input on training shirts from their kids club

With the 18 degrees of separation between pay-to-play suburbia entitlement soccer and real true soccer cultures, we ain't catching up no time soon.

[Anonymous]

Watching Messi dribble circles around American back lines outside of his prime should be more than enough to show why the USA cannot stand internationally. Our fast and aggressive 'athletic players' model shockingly doesn't translate well. Who knew.

[Anonymous]

^^ like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watching Messi dribble circles around American back lines outside of his prime should be more than enough to show why the USA cannot stand internationally. Our fast and aggressive 'athletic players' model shockingly doesn't translate well. Who knew.

Sure he's playing in MLS, but many of the players who comprise the various backlines around which he is dribbling circles are not American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watching Messi dribble circles around American back lines outside of his prime should be more than enough to show why the USA cannot stand internationally. Our fast and aggressive 'athletic players' model shockingly doesn't translate well. Who knew.

Sure he's playing in MLS, but many of the players who comprise the various backlines around which he is dribbling circles are not American.

Shhhhh! Don’t ruin a deeply ingrained belief that excuses their own failures.

It’s the system! (Not the kids, families and communities).

PSA: Messi, from a upper middle class family in Argentina, in a pay-to-play academy in Argentina, had to leave that amazing and vibrant soccer cultured country to get the training he needed to be the GOAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a prospective player's parents have to pay 5-10k a year for their kid to be seen, we will never be able to compete.

How much do you think it costs to develop a pro player? Not even a top league pro?

Most academies estimate it to be around $250k minimum. FIFA requires a 5% (minimum) training fee be sent to the academy when the player goes pro - and that fee keeps going for every transfer until that player is 24yo. So the academies are fine with that, because it all balances out to stay in business.

If that’s what you want, you can get a job in one of 47 different European countries, establish residency and try your luck there, where as outside talent, it’s much harder to break into the system.

In the US the $250k (minimum!) is largely footed by families. But the barrier to entry is lower - everyone gets a shot! And if you can’t afford it, but you’re a genuine baller, or you’ve got clear potential, the clubs will sponsor you!

I held my DD out of a tournament that looked to be a shit show (it turned out to be, and glad we opted out) and the owner of the club offered to pay for everything just to get her there because “they needed her” - and I don’t have a “can’t afford it” problem - there is ALWAYS money and opportunity if your kid can ball in the US.

BUT if your kid can’t ball, then yeah, you gotta pay to be seen, and probably more than the ECNL teams do to attend a showcase…because you’re going to have to go to 10 ID camps to get the eyeballs the ECNL team got at 1 event. And if your kid can’t ball then they also wouldn’t have a shot in Europe…and guess what…you’d end up at a pay-to-play academy there too! But! Without a pathway to the pros OR college! And Yes, Europe has pay academies too! It’s not all “free for students, paid for by EPL Club X”

(Guess how much DC United Academy costs?…same as the European academies…it’s just in dollars not Euros)

Everyone does not get a shot. That makes no sense. Euro clubs only pay to develop already talented players. Lots of kids never play here, because barrier to entry in soccer is too high.

You’re almost getting my point! It’s not some drastic different place.

Everyone points to “Europe” as the model to emulate (there are 47 countries in Europe….)
The US model (USSF sucks for sure) that has been build by the clubs, pro teams’ academies and private Academies over the past 15 years or so looks A LOT like the UK and Spanish academy model.

The barrier to entry to soccer in the US is actually pretty low. It’s very easy to play soccer anywhere in the US, and it’s cheap too. What you’re really talking about is the competitive landscape. The US actually has more competition and competitive pathways that, I’d argue, anywhere else in the world. The problem people have is that it there are a ton of kids in the non-elite (ie not top teams in E/G/Mn) platforms - and most of those kids aren’t doing the work necessary to climb, but parents keep paying and programs keep cashing checks. Those kids fall or rise to the teams that pretty much suit their skill level.

And that is where everyone starts to complain about why Bobby and Susie isn’t being discovered!

[Anonymous]

Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

[Anonymous]

Not enough private coaches for one:one tutoring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:capitalism

If capitalism were the cause then we would expect to see this problem in all sports, not just soccer. Isn't there capitalism in basketball and baseball?

It is and costs across all youth sports are skyrocketing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see parents on DCUM demanding to have input on training shirts from their kids club

With the 18 degrees of separation between pay-to-play suburbia entitlement soccer and real true soccer cultures, we ain't catching up no time soon.

No you don’t see the big picture. The club, the league, focus on the “business side” rather than on the performance of the sport. The business has a well organized way to charge for hotel fees, practice tees and expensive uniforms and other, rather than focusing on the program, more games without necessarily having to travel every weekend. Pool kids from local teams in teams to play regionally like ODP used to do etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top talent in the US rides for free and do so from very early ages. There are no barriers for top talent other than the relatively small pool of top talent, which makes it difficult to develop more quickly. Given the DMV, it's not surprising that everybody wants to approach this like a policy problem, and compare institutional models and outcomes to infer what might be an appropriate or better model for the US, with humans presumed to be vessels of equal ability and incentive all waiting like lab rates to be put under ideal institutional conditions. It is comical to think that this is a problem worth much thought for 99.9% of people with so many other problems out there, but here we are. It is also comical to think that anybody has any top-down control or authority to change the way everything is done at the national or state or even local level. That isn't how any of this works. Some institutional models may work better than others, but in the US, the problem is a deep-seated cultural one, with most talent playing and following other sports. At some point, the ability to succeed is the result of cultural and individual factors that overwhelm institutional design. And at the end of the day, nobody has the ability or right to eliminate pay to play.

100% spot on.

Europe is “Pay to play” too! But if you don’t live there, you only see the big name academies which are free (like DC United Academy is!)

I’d add “family culture” too. So much of the saltiness comes from a family culture that has uses resentment and excuses when things get hard.

Europe is 'Pay Much Less to Get Much More'

We are 'Pay A Lot For Not Much'

According to whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:capitalism

If capitalism were the cause then we would expect to see this problem in all sports, not just soccer. Isn't there capitalism in basketball and baseball?

It is and costs across all youth sports are skyrocketing.

Yes, because costs everywhere have gone up. It’s not like soccer clubs are raking in Goldman Sachs money.