Swim Team Drama 2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

I don’t know if you’re trolling, but this seems a recipe for discontent. Swimming is a timed sport, the times are what they are, I don’t know why you would voluntarily introduce these subjective variables unless you just thrive on drama. And like the PPs said, kids who should have been DQ in breast or fly are generally slower because they can’t do the stroke right and aren’t competing for A meet slots in those events.

Nope not a troll and our team isn't high drama. We aren't a D1 Team so our ladder isn't a mile long, especially for younger kids who are legal in breast and fly. So yes, even kids who aren't legal are sometime in the running for a Saturday Spot.

There are also times when the #3 spot will be a kid who got a good enough time at time trials to make the meet but hasn't come to practice, so yes, the coach will put in the #4 kid who may be slower because they deserve it more, especially because neither kid is likely going to score points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're a lower division team, and we're on a losing streak too. Mostly because the regular A meet kids are on vacation.

This. Though we don't do A/B meets. One week 1/2 our kids didn't swim. Most other weeks we have been missing at least 1/4- 1/3 ("it was a long drive", "we were on vacation", "It was too early given the drive", "mom is out of town and I can't get 2 kids out the door"....) This is our 11th (and final) year on the team and the first that we have struggled to get kids to the meets to swim (we (swim tema board) have offered carpools, assembling breakfast bags (fruit, water, protein/cereal bars) to be given out the night before to help families troubleshoot, but it doesn't seem like the commitment is there. It's sad because almost every meet we have lost by 6-15 points meaning a couple of more kids would have made the difference and allowed us to win. Instead, we are going to lose every meet and probably drop a division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a child on the other team at our last A meet who did this very fast butterfly where she didn’t surface to do the arms except for a few times. She didn’t end up DQing which surprised me!

There are a number of scenarios where this isn't a DQ. She could have maintained an underwater streamlined position using only a dolphin kick for propulsion for the first 15 meters in either direction. That covers 60 percent of the race distance. An advanced swimmer would only need a few arms strokes to cover the remaining 10 meters in each direction. Alternatively some novice swimmers who aren't strong enough to keep their arms simultaneous and above the water at a high tempo will mix in just a few intermittent but simultaneous arm strokes throughout the race while relying primarily on their kick for propulsion. In this case, underwater arms are ok as long as they aren't pulling without recovering over the surface simultaneously. You'll see kids holding their arms forward while kicking for a while and then taking a legal arm stroke before resuming kicking with the arms forward again. It's not always pretty but it can be legal.

This was an under 8 and I think it was a version of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

Not faulting them, we get it. But our coaches also watch and know when a kid isn't really legal/their time doesn't really count

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

Not faulting them, we get it. But our coaches also watch and know when a kid isn't really legal/their time doesn't really count

Minor infractions aren't making a huge difference in times. It's more likely that young kids are just inconsistent from day to day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

Not faulting them, we get it. But our coaches also watch and know when a kid isn't really legal/their time doesn't really count

A B meet official may miss a single flutter kick, but they aren't going to miss it if an 8u kid is flutter kicking to the extent it really affects their time.

Most kids are inconsistently legal before they're consistently legal. Coaches are used to this for little ones and can take it into account in addition to times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

Not faulting them, we get it. But our coaches also watch and know when a kid isn't really legal/their time doesn't really count

A B meet official may miss a single flutter kick, but they aren't going to miss it if an 8u kid is flutter kicking to the extent it really affects their time.

Most kids are inconsistently legal before they're consistently legal. Coaches are used to this for little ones and can take it into account in addition to times.

Of course, that was my point. it is also why we don't share the ladder. Coaches know who is and isn't really legal and take this into consideration for Saturday meets instead of blindly looking at ladder times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

DP +1 to officiating at B meets being challenging, often much more so than at A meets. DQs are rare at the latter and super common at the former. Even our experienced officials rotate through the B meets, to help keep their skills sharp. It's easy to forget what some mistakes look like when you haven't seen them in years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents ruin everything. There is a parent who is literally counting points in a bid to get a plastic high point trophy for their kid. The kid doesn’t get to hang out with the team, parents don’t cheer for anyone and I’ve observed the kid crying on several occasions.

Summer swim is for hanging out with friends, doing silly cheers and eating the most disgusting candy they can possibly buy from concessions.

Don’t have a high point trophy if you don’t want people to care about getting it. It’s a big accomplishment for a kid.

Yes, for the kid. Not the parent.

+1 Its great for a kid to have a goal - overly invested parents are the problem. Perhaps they should find a hobby or a masters swim program to focus their energies elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're a lower division team, and we're on a losing streak too. Mostly because the regular A meet kids are on vacation.

This. Though we don't do A/B meets. One week 1/2 our kids didn't swim. Most other weeks we have been missing at least 1/4- 1/3 ("it was a long drive", "we were on vacation", "It was too early given the drive", "mom is out of town and I can't get 2 kids out the door"....) This is our 11th (and final) year on the team and the first that we have struggled to get kids to the meets to swim (we (swim tema board) have offered carpools, assembling breakfast bags (fruit, water, protein/cereal bars) to be given out the night before to help families troubleshoot, but it doesn't seem like the commitment is there. It's sad because almost every meet we have lost by 6-15 points meaning a couple of more kids would have made the difference and allowed us to win. Instead, we are going to lose every meet and probably drop a division.

What's your coaching culture like? Our kids would pretty much do anything for their coaches and that makes the kids ambitious and the parents really supportive. If someone on our crew misses an A meet everyone assumes something is wrong and asks where they are and if they're OK. We swam a team earlier this season where the coaching culture was clearly ... not productive, and it showed all over the meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

I do stroke and turn and A and B meets. B meets are more challenging because they go later into the evening and you have kids DQ'ing in ways that you aren't expecting. Last year, we finished our time trials after dark in the rain. By midway, you could judge turns and finishes and catch really glaring mistakes. I know that we didn't DQ kids who probably should have because we couldn't see them well enough to be sure and you don't raise your hand unless you are sure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team doesn't send around a ladder. I do think that would be helpful. But I kind of get why they don't.. we have some competitive parents.

We don’t send out the ladder and not all meet entries are based on the ladder.

If a kid has a good time but never shows up for practice, and I’m not talking about kid who swim club, we won’t put them in.

There are also times when the ladder can be wrong like a kid who gets a good time at a B meet, but should have had a DQ/isn’t really legal in a stroke.

Coaches also take 25 m splits for kids who swim 50s and use those to pick the relays.

So Johnny swam freestyle to get a fast time in breaststroke and no one noticed? Yeah, right. Most of the time the kids who aren't legal in a stroke are really slow simply because they haven't mastered the proper technique. They aren't sniffing the top of the ladder except maybe on a team struggling to fill lanes.

No, not that extreme, but we often have younger swimmers that get times who are not really legal. B meet officials are often not as experienced as A meet officials and often miss minor things that the coaches notice. We aren't a D1 team so our 8u ladder for kids who can swim breast and fly isn't a mile long so, yes these kids could get put in an A meet.

Being a B meet official can also be quite challenging. Even the most experienced officials will miss a few minor infractions while trying to observe four lanes in poor lighting conditions. And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the swimmer.

DP +1 to officiating at B meets being challenging, often much more so than at A meets. DQs are rare at the latter and super common at the former. Even our experienced officials rotate through the B meets, to help keep their skills sharp. It's easy to forget what some mistakes look like when you haven't seen them in years.

We always say 8 and unders are creative.

[Anonymous]

There are some awful swim parents. At one meet this past weekend parents were overheard urging their kids to “drown” their opponents. Mostly our division is very chill, but some teams are just ugly.