Are all teams so hard for teens to get volunteer hours?

[Anonymous]

There is something weird going on here. We are at a pretty strong team, with coveted competitive paid jr coach positions. Those positions go to the kids who have been the most supportive of the team, and exhibit the best potential to lead little kids. So yes, a kid who is a club swimmer who may or may not come to their own practice, comes to a meets, and never comes to b meets, is highly unlikely to get one of those positions. A kid who volunteer coaches at the winter swim program, is at every meet, and is playing with little kids, etc, is showing them how to do cheers- they are going to get the position.
That being said- at least at our pool, many kids act as volunteer coaches. This is as straightforward as simply asking the coach if he could use some help that day with the younger kids- He generally says yes, unless the kid asking is a problem- at least our coach will give anyone a shot at helping. Now, will they get the 'status' of being jr coaches? no- but they can help. If you were new to our team and asked if teens had the ability to help out, even if new to the team, I would say yes, definitely. I wonder if your kids just aren't really communicating with the coach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

You're not going to get sympathy from me. I had six kids and a deployed husband two summers and I made swim team happen. Your time isn't more valuable than other peoples'.
I'm sorry it isn't working out how you want but your attitude is definitely part of the problem.

Save it. My kids’ dad has been gone for years. It may surprise you that some parents literally have to work at jobs where they have to go in every day, and can only afford basic childcare which pretty much makes summer swim impossible unless your team only does late evening practices. What’s the solution in that case?

To do a swim team with evening practices.
If you couldn’t do it, you couldn’t do it. Move on. But stop with the whining about how kids who’ve been there longer are getting positions first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

This is really on point. You want your kids to have the prime jobs, and only pick the ones you/they want which are of course the popular jobs. They need to just start by taking any volunteer job. That’s how they will get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

Are you OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

Are you OP?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

We’re a less competitive pool (Division 7) and all the coaches are swim team alums and lifeguards at the pool. The mini coaches are HS seniors and the regular team coaches are all college kids. Most of them are from families where multiple kids have done swim team, many of them have a parent who has done 1-2 years as team rep, starter, or head timer. My kids take private lessons from the coaches. At our pool, only the lifeguards are allowed to use the pool for private lessons once they have taught group swim lessons 1-2 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

Our pool interviews for summer positions when college kids are home on spring break. The spots at our pool have been filled by mid-April. Our pool has been open for 3 weeks and we’re on the 3rd week of summer swim team practices.

If you have been at your pool, just not active, why are you complaining about this now in June?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

Our pool interviews for summer positions when college kids are home on spring break. The spots at our pool have been filled by mid-April. Our pool has been open for 3 weeks and we’re on the 3rd week of summer swim team practices.

If you have been at your pool, just not active, why are you complaining about this now in June?

Because in April when the coach spots got filled, I thought NBD, the kids can volunteer, maybe someday after they do more volunteering they can become coaches. But now I find out it’s hard even to grab onto the bottom rung.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

Why can’t your kids sign up for some of those cleanup slots?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

Of course it is. Someone has to manage teen volunteers.
Your teen needs to take some initiative (and they need to see it modeled by you). Help with the little kids even though it doesn’t fill a slot, ask the coach what they can do, clean up. Your expectations that people are gonna make this easy for you and so you can check SSL hours off your to-do list isn’t reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

Our pool interviews for summer positions when college kids are home on spring break. The spots at our pool have been filled by mid-April. Our pool has been open for 3 weeks and we’re on the 3rd week of summer swim team practices.

If you have been at your pool, just not active, why are you complaining about this now in June?

Because in April when the coach spots got filled, I thought NBD, the kids can volunteer, maybe someday after they do more volunteering they can become coaches. But now I find out it’s hard even to grab onto the bottom rung.

Have you asked about them volunteering, not volunteer coaching but helping with set up and take down for home meets, or writing names on ribbons at home meet, or doing a Costco run if they're driving? My pool is happy to have teens do those jobs.

My kid is a paid coach this summer, after being a volunteer last summer. I believe you that your club swimmer probably swims better than my kid.

But my kid got that job after years of helping with set up and take down, and showing up for the clean up day before the pool opens to help paint and spruce up the place, and helping keep the little kids organized and entertained. He's the A meet swimmer who shows up for the B meets to cheer on his little buddies. It's true that he started attending swim meets in a baby carrier. It's true that I volunteer a lot, which meant that he was there a lot so he had opportunities to learn skills that are important, and to offer to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah and some of the paid coaches at our pool aren’t year round swimmers, but like PP said they’ve been plugged in for years and their parents pretty much run the pool.

I just wish I’d learned this up front instead of getting our hopes up.

With all due respect, this is how life works in general right? The people who show up and give their time are going to be plugged in and have built the community to get the perks and benefits. You don't show up at the 11th hour and have that happen. There are things for the kids that are 100 percent merit-based, but no a community and volunteer-driven activity is not going to be it.

Obviously it’s fully reasonable and good to expect volunteering and commitment during participation, and we have been doing our part since we were able to join. But no, I don’t think having to be plugged into something for years, in this case more due to parents’ decisions, resources, and connections is “how life works in general”, and where that might be true in some places, I don’t see that as positive in this day and age that is supposed to be more inclusive. That is why this is all new to me.

I mean swimming is all run by parent volunteers, who do you think has a responsibility to make it "inclusive" for you? We are a do the bare minimum volunteer family, but I don't begrudge the more connected parents whose kids have an "in". Those parents spend a TON of time making swim team happen - you can hardly expect them to invest all that time in order to give your kids the prime opportunities?

Maybe what I begrudge is the pretense that it is anything different. It is not my kids’ fault that we didn’t have the resources to make this happen when they were younger. But I can’t think of any other activity we ever joined where we saw kids effectively shut out from meaningful volunteer opportunities their peers were able to participate in. Perhaps that’s partly the nature of the activity but it feels toxic here on the outside.

I don’t understand what “pretense” you mean? Was this represented to you differently when you joined?

Yes. Yes it was.

Who represented that and what exactly did they say that led you to believe that there were unlimited junior coaching positions?

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I was merely led to believe that it would be easy for my kids to get involved (volunteering) but it seems that door is also closing.

Volunteering is extremely easy in almost any organization that has need. Choosing exactly what kind of work you will _do_ as a volunteer is where the going gets considerably tougher. The organization has openings in certain ways and certain places. If you want to help them, you have to do what they need, not what you want. So yes, it probably was and is very easy for you and your DCs to volunteer with the summer swim team. But if what they need is meet cleanup and what you want to do is junior coach, there is going to be a mismatch (although I can hardly think of any tasks in which our coaches don't participate). If your DCs want experience mentoring and supervising, why don't they volunteer to help at the team social events? There is _always_ room for people to serve potluck breakfast, set up tables, clean up trash, help with arts and crafts, deejay music, plan games for 4th of July pool parties, etc., etc., etc. The more your DCs are seen pitching in and getting along well with folks, the more likely their offer to help and support the clerk of course at B meets, or serve as runners, will be welcomed, and then they can start to get to know the little kids as swimmers. It takes time, OP, because as PPs have said the ability of the older kids to mentor is enhanced by their familiarity and longevity, and you can't recreate that with club cut times.

That’s all fine and good, as far as adult volunteering where there are a number of jobs and slots that need to be filled, and all I need to do is sign up, show up, and cheerfully do what I committed to doing. It seems like it’s a lot easier for parents than teens to get involved.

There are very few adult responsibilities for summer swim that can't be shadowed or even replaced by a teen. You can always ask your B rep if you're not sure, or concentrate on the social events.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately there is so much drama, politics, and unfairness in summer teams from leadership. The swim team leaders (board or team reps) are volunteers. Many times they do a subpar job with the actual management of the team, volunteers, money, and coaches. Many of these leaders are parts of cliques of people who want influence. They often choose their friends and friends kids. They often don’t properly communicate to those who are not part of their clique. Some of the most disheartening adult behavior I’ve seen has been through summer swim team leaders and volunteers.

Your child may be better off and more protected from toxicity in another role.