How many people are getting sick of Takoma Park's high taxes and city gov't spending the city into the ground?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue at this stage. Pre-2008 it was presumed that there would be a stop at MC. When the right of way way unveiled in 2013, it miraculously doglegged around Takoma Park. Much to the surprise of residents along Wayne Avenue. Peter Franchot was one of 3 people in the state that could make this decision. These are just facts. You don’t like the racist outcomes of your neighborhoods NIMBYism. But that doesn’t change history.

Shall we now talk about why there is no housing at the Takoma metro station 20 years after it was proposed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue at this stage. Pre-2008 it was presumed that there would be a stop at MC. When the right of way way unveiled in 2013, it miraculously doglegged around Takoma Park. Much to the surprise of residents along Wayne Avenue. Peter Franchot was one of 3 people in the state that could make this decision. These are just facts. You don’t like the racist outcomes of your neighborhoods NIMBYism. But that doesn’t change history.

Shall we now talk about why there is no housing at the Takoma metro station 20 years after it was proposed?

It was presumed by who? Who was doing the presuming? And where did they do this presuming?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue at this stage. Pre-2008 it was presumed that there would be a stop at MC. When the right of way way unveiled in 2013, it miraculously doglegged around Takoma Park. Much to the surprise of residents along Wayne Avenue. Peter Franchot was one of 3 people in the state that could make this decision. These are just facts. You don’t like the racist outcomes of your neighborhoods NIMBYism. But that doesn’t change history.

Shall we now talk about why there is no housing at the Takoma metro station 20 years after it was proposed?

It was presumed by who? Who was doing the presuming? And where did they do this presuming?

Playing dumb just makes you look dumb. Sorry.

Now how about what happened at the Takoma Metro?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue at this stage. Pre-2008 it was presumed that there would be a stop at MC. When the right of way way unveiled in 2013, it miraculously doglegged around Takoma Park. Much to the surprise of residents along Wayne Avenue. Peter Franchot was one of 3 people in the state that could make this decision. These are just facts. You don’t like the racist outcomes of your neighborhoods NIMBYism. But that doesn’t change history.

Shall we now talk about why there is no housing at the Takoma metro station 20 years after it was proposed?

It was presumed by who? Who was doing the presuming? And where did they do this presuming?

Playing dumb just makes you look dumb. Sorry.

Now how about what happened at the Takoma Metro?

Let's go back to who was supposedly presuming what, when, about the Purple Line route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

The city roads can't handle the added traffic from developments like this. Getting out of TP via Carroll to University is already a nightmare.

I don't live in TP but arguing that a city should not develop a large vacant site in a prime location for fear it will create too much traffic is the kind of backwards thinking that kills local becomes and results in cities having to raise taxes and reduce amenities.

If a city isn't growing, it's dying. The key is smart growth-- advocate for a plan that will create more public transit resources along with this development, or improve existing traffic infrastructure. Look at what you can reasonably extract from a developer to assist with this.

But arguing the city should not build and new housing because of traffic congestion is just NIMBYism run amok. It won't work out how you hope.

Right now traffic backs up a crazy amount around TP during rush hour. It’s not a nimby issue; many of the people this will impact don’t necessarily live in TP. And even if it is a nimby issue, what’s wrong with advocating for consideration of something like traffic problems that will impact everyone who uses these roads? I assure you that these aren’t entitled rich people who will be most impacted. Sometimes the reality is that the way roads are designed impacts how much traffic they can hold. I’m happy to advocate for public transportation, but it is very naive to think that people will suddenly start taking busses and the like in mass numbers. Plus, I find it classist to assume that people in a new development should be expected to use public transportation instead of cars.

These arguments all amount to basically circular, self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

I'm sorry, but if traffic backed up and sat and sat on your road, you'd complain too.

The traffic back ups originate from NIMBYism blocking road improvements. The circularity then comes from pointing to the poor road conditions that your NIMBYism created as the reason why there cannot be more housing. Thus the self-perpetuating NIMBYism.

The traffic back ups originate from lots of people deciding to drive their cars on the same streets at the same time. Wider streets - which is what people usually mean when they talk about "road improvements" - don't fix that.

There isn’t a Purple Line station at the only downcounty community college. That isn’t by accident.

There isn't a Purple Line station at the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College because the only downcounty campus of Montgomery College isn't on the Purple Line.

Which came first?

The Georgetown Branch of the B&O Railroad.

It’s funny how touchy Takoma Park people get when it’s pointed out that they successfully, behind the scenes blocked mass transit to a community college in their neighborhood that serves mostly low income minority students and immigrants. Seems pretty racist.

What are you talking about? I'm the poster you're responding to. I don't live in Takoma Park. The Montgomery College Takoma Park/Silver Spring campus has mass transit: Rideon 17, Rideon 18, Metrobus F4, plus Rideon 70. (Also zero fare on Rideon for Montgomery College students with college ID.) If so-called Takoma Park people purportedly behind the scenes purportedly blocked the Purple Line from taking some purported imaginary route that would have directly gone to the campus, they did it so far behind the scenes that nobody except you has heard of it.

If you live in Montgomery County, you must not have lived here very long.

They got a retail development on a parking lot blocked a couple years ago by having Peter Franchot pressure SHA to rescind a permit for a curb cut on a state highway.

All of the documents produced by the planning department magically never mention Takoma Park or recognize its existence. Like it doesn’t even exist.

Ok, I get it now. It's a conspiracy fiction you made it up.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you would carry water for Takoma Park NIMBYs who have used their political power to thwart any and all change to their community for decades. Here is a short history of things that there is documentation to prove. In 2006, Takoma Park was successful in getting WMATA to stop housing development at the Takoma Metro. At the same time, when the FEIS was being prepared for the Purple Line, it was being proposed and stated in the FEIS that the Purple Line would bring Metro access closer to the campus. When the stations were revealed that did not happen. Fast forward to Thrive, the Takoma Park is not even mentioned as a “growth center”, even though they mention such small places like Sandy Spring. The latest Attainable Housing strategy does not identify the Takoma metro station (or their NIMBY cousins in Forest Glenn who successfully sued to block housing development) and also miraculously omits Takoma Park as having its own planning jurisdiction.

As a long time county resident, I find it odd that you are unaware of who made the decisions about the Purple Line, and when they made them. East of the Georgetown Branch, the Purple Line has always been a state project, from the get-go.

The decision making body is called the Maryland Board of Public Works and Peter Franchot, a Takoma Park resident, was one of three voting members during the entire Purple Line planning process.

Honestly, I would think if you were going to sneer about this stuff you would at least be actually knowledgeable.

Factually incorrect. Peter Franchot didn't become comptroller until 2008.

You don’t have a strong understanding of timeline for the Purple Line. Design and EIS started when O’Malley took office. In 2008 it was being publicly said that it would provide better Metro access for Montgomery College. In 2013 it miraculously came out with a dogleg down Dale around MC that took those residents by surprise, with no stop at or near MC. I wonder how that happened. C’mon man. Just own the facts.

Yeah, no. https://moco360.media/2020/09/16/tracking-the-ups-and-downs-of-the-purple-lines-roller-coaster-history/

Who, specifically, in 2008, was saying anything (in public or otherwise) about the Purple Line going to Montgomery College?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2008/12/23/light-rail-backed-in-report-on-purple-line/93383e2f-dbfb-45bc-aec8-90c5e578522a/

You don’t make any sense and it’s funny that you’re wasting time researching, only post information that refutes yourself. You claimed that Franchot wasn’t involved and yet you post articles confirming that nothing was happening pre-2008, which is self-evident. It was only a concept before then.

FWIW, the MC access point was raised in public testimony by MC and Purple Line Now! You don’t know what you’re talking about but are reflexively defensive of Takoma Park and Franchot nonetheless, which is hilarious.

Who do you think you’re fooling?

Nothing happened before 2008, except the many things that happened before 2008.

I'll be happy to read anything from Purple Line Now! (which is a volunteer advocacy group, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route or anything else) or Montgomery College (which is a community college, with zero decision-making authority about the Purple Line route) touting Metro access in 2008, if you provide links.

Also, why so nasty?

I’m not sure what you’re even trying to argue at this stage. Pre-2008 it was presumed that there would be a stop at MC. When the right of way way unveiled in 2013, it miraculously doglegged around Takoma Park. Much to the surprise of residents along Wayne Avenue. Peter Franchot was one of 3 people in the state that could make this decision. These are just facts. You don’t like the racist outcomes of your neighborhoods NIMBYism. But that doesn’t change history.

Shall we now talk about why there is no housing at the Takoma metro station 20 years after it was proposed?

It was presumed by who? Who was doing the presuming? And where did they do this presuming?

Playing dumb just makes you look dumb. Sorry.

Now how about what happened at the Takoma Metro?

Let's go back to who was supposedly presuming what, when, about the Purple Line route.

What are you talking about. You made a false claim about the Purple Line planning process and Franchots role in that process and then presented a timeline that directly contradicted what you said because it was nonsense. You need to really start bringing facts, because you’re just making things up and have no idea what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

100% chance. Property taxes from the new condos will be more than $60K.

But that tax revenue, even if realized, will not all go to the City of Takoma Park. Meanwhile, that $60K is just the FIRST year of spending, to PLAN the new streetscape on Maple Ave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having learned nothing from the abysmal financial drain by the city for the Takoma Junction project, the city is embarking on an ambitious upzoning project to attract a luxury residential developer to build condos on the site of the Washington Adventist Hospital. First step is $60K spending by the city for planning a new streetscape along Maple Ave meant to make this project attractive to developers. What are the chances this can succeed in a way that can pay back taxpayers for the "investment"?

100% chance. Property taxes from the new condos will be more than $60K.

But that tax revenue, even if realized, will not all go to the City of Takoma Park. Meanwhile, that $60K is just the FIRST year of spending, to PLAN the new streetscape on Maple Ave.

Having visited a city (Laredo, Texas) with a huge empty hospital near the center, I can tell you're underestimating the negative value of having such a former hospital building in the middle of things. It attracts crime and vermin. Do you want that in the middle of your city?

NIMBYism isn't a good strategy for a city to thrive.