Why do people ask for stats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

You missed the bigger comment: the first cut it GPA. Are you certain your school does not have a school profile where it says with the lowest GPA and the highest GPA of the senior class is from that school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people look at scattergrams? Why do people look at the CDS for stats? Why do people look at 25,50 and 75 percentiles for test scores for admitted students?

You know why.

Because those are the only quantitative data points given. It doesn’t mean they are as paramount as is often assumed.

Wrong. I have heard at Tufts, Gtown, UVA, and Yale that the first stop is the transcript. It is THE most important. YCBK has said it many many times in the podcast. It matters.

This. The Transcript is number 1, and that means what courses taken compared to what is offered at the school, not a count of the total APs. High rigor in all 5 core areas and still a top GPA in the context of the high school gpa scale. Gpa out of context is fairly useless. SAT is not nearly as important as the transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

You missed the bigger comment: the first cut it GPA. Are you certain your school does not have a school profile where it says with the lowest GPA and the highest GPA of the senior class is from that school?

I am positive.

This is why many private high schools don’t even calculate GPA- they make the colleges calculate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people look at scattergrams? Why do people look at the CDS for stats? Why do people look at 25,50 and 75 percentiles for test scores for admitted students?

You know why.

Because those are the only quantitative data points given. It doesn’t mean they are as paramount as is often assumed.

Wrong. I have heard at Tufts, Gtown, UVA, and Yale that the first stop is the transcript. It is THE most important. YCBK has said it many many times in the podcast. It matters.

This. The Transcript is number 1, and that means what courses taken compared to what is offered at the school, not a count of the total APs. High rigor in all 5 core areas and still a top GPA in the context of the high school gpa scale. Gpa out of context is fairly useless. SAT is not nearly as important as the transcript.

I think we've veered off course here. Maybe OP didn't phrase well initially. No one disputes that GPA is the first stop. But, that doesn't preclude the objection to people asking for stats. Stats are a hurdle, not a fine tuned marker. I think OP was saying that asking stars is useless because anyone in has the stats plus other things!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

You missed the bigger comment: the first cut it GPA. Are you certain your school does not have a school profile where it says with the lowest GPA and the highest GPA of the senior class is from that school?

I am positive.

This is why many private high schools don’t even calculate GPA- they make the colleges calculate it.

Many private HS’s rank, tho. Our public does not. If the rank is offered, that is significant info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

I think certain privates do this differently. I’ve already had one go through the process so asked a ton of questions.

Ours get around this. No rank no nothing. The school profile doesn’t tell them anything either - no avg grades no avg test score etc. and the school profile is publicly available so everyone has seen it….

However selective schools have their own databases for high schools that they know well - and they use the applicant grades/scores to track against the students they’ve admitted from the past from that school. Plus regional AO/reps know what to look for.

But landmark does this job too? So the colleges have plenty of data on each high school, even if not provided by the school itself…..I don’t think anything the counselor provides is actually that valuable anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people ask about stats so much? It’s been known for years that college admissions is a holistic process and that a kid with a 4.0/1600 can easily be rejected from a school that admits a kid with a 3.6/1450. When are people going to realize that ECs, LORs, awards, essays, interviews, fit, etc. are as, if not much more, important?

I suppose you and your kids don’t have any use for such information. Must be nice to apply to colleges begging for applicants where the number of applications exceeds the number of students those colleges would like to admit.

Honey, some kids don’t have any use for such information because they are applying to colleges where everyone has high stats, including athletes and the other usual suspects. Imagine that.

Misogynist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

You missed the bigger comment: the first cut it GPA. Are you certain your school does not have a school profile where it says with the lowest GPA and the highest GPA of the senior class is from that school?

I am positive.

This is why many private high schools don’t even calculate GPA- they make the colleges calculate it.

Many private HS’s rank, tho. Our public does not. If the rank is offered, that is significant info.

I don’t think “many” rank. Maybe a few? My DC’s have gone to 3 different DMV private HS. None of them rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

I think certain privates do this differently. I’ve already had one go through the process so asked a ton of questions.

Ours get around this. No rank no nothing. The school profile doesn’t tell them anything either - no avg grades no avg test score etc. and the school profile is publicly available so everyone has seen it….

However selective schools have their own databases for high schools that they know well - and they use the applicant grades/scores to track against the students they’ve admitted from the past from that school. Plus regional AO/reps know what to look for.

But landmark does this job too? So the colleges have plenty of data on each high school, even if not provided by the school itself…..I don’t think anything the counselor provides is actually that valuable anymore.

+2 Colleges now use AI to track performance of students by high school. It includes their high school GPA and current college GPA. Really common. The regional AOs rely on these metrics. This is why certain colleges have favorite high schools that they admit from routinely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

I think certain privates do this differently. I’ve already had one go through the process so asked a ton of questions.

Ours get around this. No rank no nothing. The school profile doesn’t tell them anything either - no avg grades no avg test score etc. and the school profile is publicly available so everyone has seen it….

However selective schools have their own databases for high schools that they know well - and they use the applicant grades/scores to track against the students they’ve admitted from the past from that school. Plus regional AO/reps know what to look for.

But landmark does this job too? So the colleges have plenty of data on each high school, even if not provided by the school itself…..I don’t think anything the counselor provides is actually that valuable anymore.

+2 Colleges now use AI to track performance of students by high school. It includes their high school GPA and current college GPA. Really common. The regional AOs rely on these metrics. This is why certain colleges have favorite high schools that they admit from routinely.

This is 💯 true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

You missed the bigger comment: the first cut it GPA. Are you certain your school does not have a school profile where it says with the lowest GPA and the highest GPA of the senior class is from that school?

I am positive.

This is why many private high schools don’t even calculate GPA- they make the colleges calculate it.

Many private HS’s rank, tho. Our public does not. If the rank is offered, that is significant info.

I don’t think “many” rank. Maybe a few? My DC’s have gone to 3 different DMV private HS. None of them rank.

+1
I don’t know any private high school that ranks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

I think certain privates do this differently. I’ve already had one go through the process so asked a ton of questions.

Ours get around this. No rank no nothing. The school profile doesn’t tell them anything either - no avg grades no avg test score etc. and the school profile is publicly available so everyone has seen it….

However selective schools have their own databases for high schools that they know well - and they use the applicant grades/scores to track against the students they’ve admitted from the past from that school. Plus regional AO/reps know what to look for.

But landmark does this job too? So the colleges have plenty of data on each high school, even if not provided by the school itself…..I don’t think anything the counselor provides is actually that valuable anymore.

+2 Colleges now use AI to track performance of students by high school. It includes their high school GPA and current college GPA. Really common. The regional AOs rely on these metrics. This is why certain colleges have favorite high schools that they admit from routinely.

Colleges have been doing this simple tracking for years. Nothing "AI" about it. Colleges love reliable yield and this is one mechanism for doing it. More than performance, they look for longevity.. how many kids from a particular school yield and how many of them continue to stay in college after year 1. Those factors are more important to them than how well the student does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ask any seasonal reader of application. The first cut isGPA and test scores. Then class rank -and before you yell my high school doesnt rank! - it does via the school profile sent by the high school with each applicant. it contains no of kids in the applicant class, the gpa distribution, the most rigorous courses offered and a bar graph to show what percentage of the class is actually taking those courses. The reader can figure out class rank in seconds. Also, readers look for clues like honor society. Only after meeting the school's minimum stats does the application go to the AO staff and ultimately the regional AO who is familiar with the school and howpast admittees have performed at that college. The reader also ferrets out hooks.

Our private’s college counselor does not fill out grade distro; most rigorous courses; or the bar graph. I suspect they can still get stats/scores/avgerages from landmark though?

Note the regional reps forT25s are all familiar with our school’s unique curriculum/ teachers /classes hard to get As in and the best writers of LOR - so maybe this is a moot point.

I don't think you are asking the right questions. The info is in the school profile sent by the high school, public or private. Bear in mind that college counselors are in a bind. The high schools don't want push-back from parents so they will do anything to avoid admitting they rank or they don't check off the most rigorous box. Yet, the colleges know. The information is all
there provided by the counselor. That's what readers look for in the first cull. Plus they already have a dossier on your school from prior applicants and their successes at the University.

I think certain privates do this differently. I’ve already had one go through the process so asked a ton of questions.

Ours get around this. No rank no nothing. The school profile doesn’t tell them anything either - no avg grades no avg test score etc. and the school profile is publicly available so everyone has seen it….

However selective schools have their own databases for high schools that they know well - and they use the applicant grades/scores to track against the students they’ve admitted from the past from that school. Plus regional AO/reps know what to look for.

But landmark does this job too? So the colleges have plenty of data on each high school, even if not provided by the school itself…..I don’t think anything the counselor provides is actually that valuable anymore.

+2 Colleges now use AI to track performance of students by high school. It includes their high school GPA and current college GPA. Really common. The regional AOs rely on these metrics. This is why certain colleges have favorite high schools that they admit from routinely.

Colleges have been doing this simple tracking for years. Nothing "AI" about it. Colleges love reliable yield and this is one mechanism for doing it. More than performance, they look for longevity.. how many kids from a particular school yield and how many of them continue to stay in college after year 1. Those factors are more important to them than how well the student does.

This is reality, they shop by school, they cultivate HSs. Parents are too focused on their individual student to see this.