How to structure finances for end of life decisions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read/heard SO MANY people who have had to liquidate estates to qualify for medicaid.

Can someone point me to any resources or information as to how best protect assets so that we can leave things to children instead of liquidating everything? Yes, we will gift during our healthy lifetimes. But, is there a way to structure bank accounts, financial accounts, homes, etc. so they pass to our heirs vs. having to be sold and funneled to these homes?

What sort of "expert" would advise on that? Attorney?

We've worked long and hard to benefit our kids. Not rich by any means but comfortable and we want that to go to them. Is this even possible???

You are asking how to cheat. And you feel no remorse about it. I assume this is part of making America great - normalizing cheating. You disgust me.

[Anonymous]

I'm not asking for these types of opinions. Sorry, I'm not. We are not rich, as I stated. So we wont be in some fancy end of life facility. So what we do have, I want to go to my family. You don't have to agree or like it. But I'm not really interested in that. I've worked since I've been 14 years old. I've paid into all of the systems and so don't feel bad asking for the taxpayers for anything.

Growing old in this country is a lonely and expensive affair.

I’ve been working since I was 11 (mother’s helper) and I’m not expecting tax payers to foot my end of life care so that my kids get an inheritance. People like you are the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are asking how you can get taxpayers to pay for your end of life care rather than you.

+1. Why shouldn't your resources be used to pay for your end of life care? Would you expect taxpayers to provide a gift of $100K to your children when you die because that's basically what you're asking for when you ask everyone else to pay your bills when you have the means to do so.

I'm not asking for these types of opinions. Sorry, I'm not. We are not rich, as I stated. So we wont be in some fancy end of life facility. So what we do have, I want to go to my family. You don't have to agree or like it. But I'm not really interested in that. I've worked since I've been 14 years old. I've paid into all of the systems and so don't feel bad asking for the taxpayers for anything.

Growing old in this country is a lonely and expensive affair.

Beginning a sentence with "so" doesn't magically create a logical connection.

Either you have enough money to pay for your own end-of-life care, in which case do it, and maybe there'll be some left for your children OR you are going to die broke, and there will be no money for your children, who are not entitled to an inheritance. No decent kid wants their parents to reduce their own quality of life just so there's something to inherit.

I say this so you'll understand . . . I don't give a sh-- what you think we have enough for or what my kids should/shouldn't want, or what they're entitled to. Or what you think is a logical connection.

People do this all the time, structure assets to benefit family. That's what I'm asking about.

DP: You don't really get to control much how people react to your question on an open-ended anonymous forum. Maybe consult a professional if you're that touchy?

Adorable. Gaslighting is what you resort to?

How am *I* gaslighting? You pose a question on an anonymous forum about how to cheat and you get negative responses that you're not happy with and then you tell people that you don't want their opinion in crass terms that you don't give a sh-- about what they think. I just stated the truth that you don't get to control their responses. It's telling that most people who responded think this is a dumb and shady idea. It's one thing to want to save assets to protect a spouse who will be destitute without them--you're choosing between two bad options there--a Medicaid nursing home or a destitute spouse. But it's a whole different thing to do that to preserve an inheritance. I can't imagine any kids who would want that.

[Anonymous]

Consider long term care insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consult with an attorney. You will want to put your assets in a trust and will need to do it prior to the look back period. Filial responsibility laws may also apply depending on where you live.

What others have said is true about Medicaid homes- they truly are the worst of the worst, and to even get a Medicaid bed you often need to start as private pay. The whole system is designed to wipe you out and leave nothing left.

So serious question, bc this is all very disconcerting and scary: What the Fu--- do normal people do when they need skilled end of life care???

america assumes that there is someone in the family whose economic output is discounted enough to do all of the physical caretaking themselves. Aka, a daughter or daughter-in-law will take care of the parents. Medicare will cover weekly hospice visits and some supplies. Folks that are bedbound eventually die from bedsores/sepsis or pneumonia because eventually the skin breaks down or they can't recover from a lung infection.

sandwich generation math: daycare is $3000/month. private pay memory care is $8500/month. A bed in a medicaid "skilled nursing facility" runs $13,000 a month. Medicare is supposed to cover 100 days but they deny it immediately. The facility will just let the bill accrue while going through the medicaid waiver process, which will take about as long as it takes $13,000/mo to get through any equity might exist in the family home.

Yes. Also what often happens is the elderly person owns a home, and has a child, or grandchild, niece or nephew, who is underemployed and cannot find housing.

The family member lives rent free with the elderly person, and provides care until the elderly person really can't live on his or her own any longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Give it to your children while you are alive. When they have young kids in day care or are buying a house - helpnwith the down payment. Do the trust when a spouse needs long-term care and support and the other spouse does not. You don't want it all taken up by one spouse and then the spouse is doing well has to live on nothing

A trust won’t necessarily prevent one spouse from using up all of the money for their care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consult with an attorney. You will want to put your assets in a trust and will need to do it prior to the look back period. Filial responsibility laws may also apply depending on where you live.

What others have said is true about Medicaid homes- they truly are the worst of the worst, and to even get a Medicaid bed you often need to start as private pay. The whole system is designed to wipe you out and leave nothing left.

So serious question, bc this is all very disconcerting and scary: What the Fu--- do normal people do when they need skilled end of life care???

I have a parent in a Medicaid bed who started out private pay.

What happens is your family scrambles to deal with things and take care you and find you a place and it's awful. The best gift you can give your children is not your money but a reasonable attitude and approach about end of life stages. Plan for it now. Sure plan financially. But more importantly, move into a reasonable place where you can live independently and ideally transition to higher levels of care when you might need it, get rid of your stuff so it's not their problem, and plan financially so you have somewhere to go which probably means keeping some money yourself so you are not their problem. And then don't be a giant pain in the ass, to be blunt.

There are not just magical Medicaid beds you move into when the time comes. And guess what your kids also probably are not going to feel great about putting you in one of them! And your future self might not be so agreeable down the road when reality sets in.

Honestly, these “independent living” places are a total scam. The nursing beds they offer are as horrible as anything else out there and the nursing staff are very limited in what they will do outside that context. You’re probably better off putting your loved one in an affordable condo and paying for care assistance when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I plan to off ourselves at the end of our independent lives. This may not be popular and who knows if we can execute on it but that’s the plan for now. We’re in the middle of caring for many older parents/grandparents and feel clear eyed about not wanting the same end of life.

How does this work – will you buy a gun and just leave a gruesome scene for your kids to discover in your living room?

Because I thought euthanasia is still not legal in most places and, in the places it is legal, it is still disallowed if there is any sign of mental decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are asking how you can get taxpayers to pay for your end of life care rather than you.

+1. Why shouldn't your resources be used to pay for your end of life care? Would you expect taxpayers to provide a gift of $100K to your children when you die because that's basically what you're asking for when you ask everyone else to pay your bills when you have the means to do so.

Because what tends to happen is that you will deplete all your money for elder care, run out of money and then end up in a medicaid facility anyways so why not protect what you have, make sure your kids get it and start with medicaid. Sure, it costs the 'public' which eventually results in increased taxes. Let's structure those tax increases such that they come out of rich people's income vs. the rest of the 'public'.

I hate to break it to you, but if you have assets to leave, you are the "rich" people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consult with an attorney. You will want to put your assets in a trust and will need to do it prior to the look back period. Filial responsibility laws may also apply depending on where you live.

What others have said is true about Medicaid homes- they truly are the worst of the worst, and to even get a Medicaid bed you often need to start as private pay. The whole system is designed to wipe you out and leave nothing left.

So serious question, bc this is all very disconcerting and scary: What the Fu--- do normal people do when they need skilled end of life care???

I have a parent in a Medicaid bed who started out private pay.

What happens is your family scrambles to deal with things and take care you and find you a place and it's awful. The best gift you can give your children is not your money but a reasonable attitude and approach about end of life stages. Plan for it now. Sure plan financially. But more importantly, move into a reasonable place where you can live independently and ideally transition to higher levels of care when you might need it, get rid of your stuff so it's not their problem, and plan financially so you have somewhere to go which probably means keeping some money yourself so you are not their problem. And then don't be a giant pain in the ass, to be blunt.

There are not just magical Medicaid beds you move into when the time comes. And guess what your kids also probably are not going to feel great about putting you in one of them! And your future self might not be so agreeable down the road when reality sets in.

I can't like this comment enough.

My Mom, unfortunately, didn't live long enough to need end of life care, but after dealing with her mother, she promised me that she would not resist going into a care facility. I have made the same commitment to my kids. I'm saving enough money so it's not their problem, and that's the best gift I can give them. If I lose my $$ and a Medicaid facility is where I end up, I will know it's not their fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are asking how you can get taxpayers to pay for your end of life care rather than you.

+1. Why shouldn't your resources be used to pay for your end of life care? Would you expect taxpayers to provide a gift of $100K to your children when you die because that's basically what you're asking for when you ask everyone else to pay your bills when you have the means to do so.

I'm not asking for these types of opinions. Sorry, I'm not. We are not rich, as I stated. So we wont be in some fancy end of life facility. So what we do have, I want to go to my family. You don't have to agree or like it. But I'm not really interested in that. I've worked since I've been 14 years old. I've paid into all of the systems and so don't feel bad asking for the taxpayers for anything.

Growing old in this country is a lonely and expensive affair.

That’s not how it works.

It sure does for a lot of people. You think people don't hide or manipulate their finances to get end of life benefits? LOL.

Of course they do. The point is that there isn't some magical answer that will let OP maintain complete control of all their spending and assets while making them eligible for Medicaid until they die and then all the assets transfer to their kids. That is not illegal, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are asking how you can get taxpayers to pay for your end of life care rather than you.

+1. Why shouldn't your resources be used to pay for your end of life care? Would you expect taxpayers to provide a gift of $100K to your children when you die because that's basically what you're asking for when you ask everyone else to pay your bills when you have the means to do so.

I'm not asking for these types of opinions. Sorry, I'm not. We are not rich, as I stated. So we wont be in some fancy end of life facility. So what we do have, I want to go to my family. You don't have to agree or like it. But I'm not really interested in that. I've worked since I've been 14 years old. I've paid into all of the systems and so don't feel bad asking for the taxpayers for anything.

Growing old in this country is a lonely and expensive affair.

You are NOT entitled to have the government (ie my tax dollars) pay for your old age care simply so you can give money to your kids. That’s not how it works.

Don’t care that you’ve worked since 15. I work and pay tons in taxes, we save for our own LTC and don’t expect the gift to provide it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are asking how you can get taxpayers to pay for your end of life care rather than you.

+1. Why shouldn't your resources be used to pay for your end of life care? Would you expect taxpayers to provide a gift of $100K to your children when you die because that's basically what you're asking for when you ask everyone else to pay your bills when you have the means to do so.

Because what tends to happen is that you will deplete all your money for elder care, run out of money and then end up in a medicaid facility anyways so why not protect what you have, make sure your kids get it and start with medicaid. Sure, it costs the 'public' which eventually results in increased taxes. Let's structure those tax increases such that they come out of rich people's income vs. the rest of the 'public'.

Ummm, why should “rich people” pay for your lack of planning and desire to be greedy?

Our income is mostly w2 or interest. No way to avoid paying massive taxes. But I’m not paying more taxes so you don’t have to plan for life and death. You can plan for it and use your own money not give it to kids upon death. Me personally I would t want to live in a Medicare facility but I bet your kids want your kidney and don’t care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Consult with an attorney. You will want to put your assets in a trust and will need to do it prior to the look back period. Filial responsibility laws may also apply depending on where you live.

What others have said is true about Medicaid homes- they truly are the worst of the worst, and to even get a Medicaid bed you often need to start as private pay. The whole system is designed to wipe you out and leave nothing left.

So serious question, bc this is all very disconcerting and scary: What the Fu--- do normal people do when they need skilled end of life care???

I have a parent in a Medicaid bed who started out private pay.

What happens is your family scrambles to deal with things and take care you and find you a place and it's awful. The best gift you can give your children is not your money but a reasonable attitude and approach about end of life stages. Plan for it now. Sure plan financially. But more importantly, move into a reasonable place where you can live independently and ideally transition to higher levels of care when you might need it, get rid of your stuff so it's not their problem, and plan financially so you have somewhere to go which probably means keeping some money yourself so you are not their problem. And then don't be a giant pain in the ass, to be blunt.

There are not just magical Medicaid beds you move into when the time comes. And guess what your kids also probably are not going to feel great about putting you in one of them! And your future self might not be so agreeable down the road when reality sets in.

Honestly, these “independent living” places are a total scam. The nursing beds they offer are as horrible as anything else out there and the nursing staff are very limited in what they will do outside that context. You’re probably better off putting your loved one in an affordable condo and paying for care assistance when the time comes.

Not all.

The higher end CcRCs are amazing places. Parents are in one. The costs do not increase for going to nursing care, assisted living or memory care, except for paying for all meals versus 1.5 per day. You are guaranteed a spot should you ever need it. Your spouse gets to remain in the same independent living space for no additional cost/

If you can swing the entry fee it’s the way to do it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read/heard SO MANY people who have had to liquidate estates to qualify for medicaid.

Can someone point me to any resources or information as to how best protect assets so that we can leave things to children instead of liquidating everything? Yes, we will gift during our healthy lifetimes. But, is there a way to structure bank accounts, financial accounts, homes, etc. so they pass to our heirs vs. having to be sold and funneled to these homes?

What sort of "expert" would advise on that? Attorney?

We've worked long and hard to benefit our kids. Not rich by any means but comfortable and we want that to go to them. Is this even possible???

You are asking how to cheat. And you feel no remorse about it. I assume this is part of making America great - normalizing cheating. You disgust me.

No, she’s not even American.