200% increase in tuition

[Anonymous]

People also expect a whole lot more out of American colleges today than they did in the 80s. If you didn't go to college, you might not know this, but any of us who went to college in the 80s or 90s look at the facilities of today's colleges and are really impressed. There's a lot more personnel to help kids through college, too. That all takes money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

+1
Except I am against it. It should not be on other families to provide the FA but that is how it works right now and absolutely has driven costs way up.

On top of that, at least at my kid’s school, the FA kids are rude and aggressive to the full pay kids and treat them as if they should pay for everything (for example, voting to make laundry free and covered by a fee that only full pay kids pay).

At my kid's school laundry is covered as part of room & board. It's a way to keep the entire dorm cleaner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

I agree America is heading to a two tier society but it's worsened under Biden, not getting better. Why else do you think all the working classes are flocking to the Republicans and the rich flocking to Biden? Think about that carefully.

Higher education is also a purely Democratic fiefdom. They own the higher education cost mess. But they won't lift a finger to reform it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

Other reasons for rising costs:

- increased in non-academic amenities offered by schools, like state of the art wellness centers, improved campus housing, and nicer dining facilities
- a proliferation of majors, requiring more facilities, professors, and staff-- some brand new majors that didn't used to exist, but also greater specialization in majors that used to all be housed in one department
- inflation in administrator salaries (but notably, not in faculty salaries, as schools have actually fought faculty increases and also shifted more work to non-tenure-track teachers, include adjuncts and graduate students, who are dirt cheap)

Yes, some are f the money also pays for aid to students who cannot afford it. But this is only true at schools without large endowments.

One thing we can do to better understand college costs is look outside the US. In Germany, for instance, public colleges are all free to students, and still manage to offer a very good education. But in most cases, they do not offer a campus experience like in the US. They don't have dorms or dining halls, students generally live near school in privately procured housing. All of the school's funding goes to professors, classrooms, and administration of education. It's a more efficient model that does not romanticize "the college experience" as we do in the US.

I'm not saying we should adopt that model for all schools, but it might be worth it to think about what we spend money on in higher education and why. What is our goal? For MC, UMC, and wealthy families, often the goal an "experience" more that education or training for a profession, and the image people have for that experience seems to get more expensive every year.

But in Germany not everyone can go to college. Your teacher decides for you at age 12. Guess who they pick? Hint, not the poor, minority or non-native German speakers. My kid is studying German in college and they were just discussing this in class and she called me horrified that in Germany she would have been tracked out of college in 7th grade or so and put on a trade school track. She is an amazing student but had late diagnosed LDs so we not so amazing until high school.

We wouldn’t have that problem here because our woke high school teachers would send ONLY minorities, poor, and immigrants to college. All the white boys would be sent to welding school or the army.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it about matches inflation.

But not income increase for most of us.

But your house has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

I agree America is heading to a two tier society but it's worsened under Biden, not getting better. Why else do you think all the working classes are flocking to the Republicans and the rich flocking to Biden? Think about that carefully.

Higher education is also a purely Democratic fiefdom. They own the higher education cost mess. But they won't lift a finger to reform it.

As an immigrant, it’s something I will never understand. The GOP clearly does not give a crap about working Americans and is very much pro corporation. The fact that rich old men (many who went to elite schools that their base sneers at) convinced poor white men that they are for the little guy is the biggest grift. And can back up any of the claims in your post?

[Anonymous]

I'm a parent who truly wanted the "college experience" for my kids, after I spent four years of college commuting to and from my school, missing out on dorm living, participating in many events, and being lonely while all of my friends were off living at college. It was important for me to send my kids off to live at college, I look at it as such a unique time in their lives to learn, mature, and discover (while Mom and Dad were still paying the bills!).

I was a commuter student at a big state school (ASU). I had no problem at all participating in events (sports, concerts in Tempe) or making friends on campus. It was as simple as talking to other kids in class or in the student union. Really “the college experience” is overrated and certainly not worth $400k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

+1
Except I am against it. It should not be on other families to provide the FA but that is how it works right now and absolutely has driven costs way up.

On top of that, at least at my kid’s school, the FA kids are rude and aggressive to the full pay kids and treat them as if they should pay for everything (for example, voting to make laundry free and covered by a fee that only full pay kids pay).

What school is this?

[Anonymous]

I went to a no-name state flagship out west. I got great internships which got me into Georgetown law. If state school is your route, it is the internships that get you where you will want to be. All my college friends from our state school did amazing state and/or national internships and they are all very successful (meaning where they want to be / monetary success).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

+1
Except I am against it. It should not be on other families to provide the FA but that is how it works right now and absolutely has driven costs way up.

On top of that, at least at my kid’s school, the FA kids are rude and aggressive to the full pay kids and treat them as if they should pay for everything (for example, voting to make laundry free and covered by a fee that only full pay kids pay).

And when they graduate will want their loans forgiven as well when they can’t find a job with their gender studies or DEIA degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

+1
Except I am against it. It should not be on other families to provide the FA but that is how it works right now and absolutely has driven costs way up.

On top of that, at least at my kid’s school, the FA kids are rude and aggressive to the full pay kids and treat them as if they should pay for everything (for example, voting to make laundry free and covered by a fee that only full pay kids pay).

And when they graduate will want their loans forgiven as well when they can’t find a job with their gender studies or DEIA degrees.

Economic and labor research says this isn't true. The majority of students with gender studies and similar degrees are not receiving financial aid. Most kids that receive financial aid seek practical degrees. At my R1 the majority are full pay UMC/wealthy students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

Oh give me a break. You think Trump is going to solve any problems? The dude had 99 problems and can’t solve one.

Did your college not teach you the difference between "and" and "or?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a no-name state flagship out west. I got great internships which got me into Georgetown law. If state school is your route, it is the internships that get you where you will want to be. All my college friends from our state school did amazing state and/or national internships and they are all very successful (meaning where they want to be / monetary success).

How is it possible that the state flagship is "no-name"? Do you really mean to say it is not mentioned in the same breath as UC schools, Michigan, UVA, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1987 and 2017, the cost of attending a public four-year college rose more than 200%.

For the 2024-2025 school year, Tufts’ estimates of expenses for undergraduate programs reaches nearly $96,000, trumping Wellesley — which comes in at about $92,000.

For the year strting this fall, Yale University comes in at almost $91,000, preceding Boston University with around $90,000 for the academic year.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/business/college-tuition-new-england-ninety-thousand/index.html

That is so effed up.

This is how they are affording to give so many kids financial aid. I am not against aid don’t get me wrong - I had it in college but this is what is allowing them to do this. Parents paying full tuition are paying for financial aid. It must be why. There is no other explanation or increase except they are admitting more kids that need more aid.

Other reasons for rising costs:

- increased in non-academic amenities offered by schools, like state of the art wellness centers, improved campus housing, and nicer dining facilities
- a proliferation of majors, requiring more facilities, professors, and staff-- some brand new majors that didn't used to exist, but also greater specialization in majors that used to all be housed in one department
- inflation in administrator salaries (but notably, not in faculty salaries, as schools have actually fought faculty increases and also shifted more work to non-tenure-track teachers, include adjuncts and graduate students, who are dirt cheap)

Yes, some are f the money also pays for aid to students who cannot afford it. But this is only true at schools without large endowments.

One thing we can do to better understand college costs is look outside the US. In Germany, for instance, public colleges are all free to students, and still manage to offer a very good education. But in most cases, they do not offer a campus experience like in the US. They don't have dorms or dining halls, students generally live near school in privately procured housing. All of the school's funding goes to professors, classrooms, and administration of education. It's a more efficient model that does not romanticize "the college experience" as we do in the US.

I'm not saying we should adopt that model for all schools, but it might be worth it to think about what we spend money on in higher education and why. What is our goal? For MC, UMC, and wealthy families, often the goal an "experience" more that education or training for a profession, and the image people have for that experience seems to get more expensive every year.

But in Germany not everyone can go to college. Your teacher decides for you at age 12. Guess who they pick? Hint, not the poor, minority or non-native German speakers. My kid is studying German in college and they were just discussing this in class and she called me horrified that in Germany she would have been tracked out of college in 7th grade or so and put on a trade school track. She is an amazing student but had late diagnosed LDs so we not so amazing until high school.

Sort of, but you are missing all the many MANY differences with the German system. Here are a few details of nuance:

- It's true that students are tracked into college-eligible and vocational track during grade school. However, a student tracked to the vocational track can still go to college. They would need to do some additional schooling first, but it's possible.

- The "vocational" track includes A LOT of what we consider "college careers" in the US. Accountants, nurses, many office professionals. You can go into management and beyond from the vocational track. This is a huge difference between Germany and the US -- they do not require a college degree for anywhere near as many careers and industries. College is really mostly for people who, in the US, would require a post graduate degree to do their jobs -- doctors, lawyers, scientists, academics. It also includes primary school teachers. As a result, fewer people go to college overall, but also not going to college in Germany is not some black mark on you that you are not employable or intelligent. Vocational schools in Germany are VERY highly regarded.

- This is an interesting nuance: vocational track can sometimes be more lucrative than college track, because in Germany people get paid during training for a lot of jobs. Jobs like being an accountant or working in the medical field involve apprenticeships as part of the vocational trainings and you get paid during your apprenticeship. So you could be making a salary by the time you are 19 or 20 years old, in a legit job with a career track and plenty of promotional potential if you are interested and want to work your way up. So many families actually view vocational track education as more economically viable, because apprenticeship programs allow you to earn money more quickly, without heavily depressing your overall career earnings (unlike in the US, where the number of jobs you can do at 19 or 20 are very limited with a very low earning ceilings, stuff like retail or construction).

Anyway, it's a totally different system. I'm not suggesting we adopt the German system. But the more you learn about how other countries approach education and career training, the more you tend to see real inefficiencies and problems with the American system. For me, one the biggest is that we require students to get 4-year college degrees to do things like marketing, business accounting, human resources, event stuff like event planning. It's genuinely hard to get jobs in those fields without a college degree, but... why? These jobs are not deeply academic. You don't need to learn theory to do them. Unlike something like medicine, you don't need this basis of deep knowledge in something like chemistry or biology before you learn there technical aspects of the job. This isn't me putting down these jobs. It's just questioning whether we are approaching the training for them in a way that makes sense either for employers OR students. Could we do this differently to create a workforce ready for the jobs we need them to do, without saddling like 70-80% of high school graduates with a 4 year education that costs an increasingly ridiculous amount of money, delays their entry into the job market, and may have very little, ultimately, to do with what they actually do for a living later?

Thank you for sharing this.

My oldest daughter is an RN who works alongside RNs who have Associate's Degrees and ones who have Bachelor's degrees. Making the same money, and she has said no difference in abilities based on level of degree attained.

It's just the ones with Bachelors (like her) will be able to move more easily into management or other admin positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is heading to a two tier society. Vote Biden or it gets worse

I agree America is heading to a two tier society but it's worsened under Biden, not getting better. Why else do you think all the working classes are flocking to the Republicans and the rich flocking to Biden? Think about that carefully.

Higher education is also a purely Democratic fiefdom. They own the higher education cost mess. But they won't lift a finger to reform it.

Unfortunately the only finger they'll lift is to attempt to dismiss student loans (and in some cases successfully), further driving working classes to the GOP.