3/29 Lottery Results

Anonymous
Reading this thread is interesting because I can see both sides of every issue. I'm a lottery veteran (this will be our 5th year) and have seen it work well and also seen it screw people over. It's a tough system, but probably more fair than the old system where there were no charters or all city schools at all and going to a school outside our IB was nearly impossible.

But really the whole conversation just makes me very tired, and the more angry and defensive people get in these conversations, the more tired I get. We recently made the decision to move before our kid hits high school, and making that decision definitively has been such a relief. To just be done with this whole mess.

That's ultimately my biggest complaint about public school in DC. Not the lottery or sibling preference or "boundary fraud" or whatever. It's that the entire system is just exhausting and it never stops -- from PK to high school, there's some level of angst over your kids education and whether you've made the right choices with regards to the lottery, where you live, DCPS v. Charter, etc. It's draining. Right now we're looking at neighborhood outside DC and looking at high schools and the idea of just moving into a school district and then submitting enrollment paperwork and that's the end of it is so amazing.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Reading this thread is interesting because I can see both sides of every issue. I'm a lottery veteran (this will be our 5th year) and have seen it work well and also seen it screw people over. It's a tough system, but probably more fair than the old system where there were no charters or all city schools at all and going to a school outside our IB was nearly impossible.

But really the whole conversation just makes me very tired, and the more angry and defensive people get in these conversations, the more tired I get. We recently made the decision to move before our kid hits high school, and making that decision definitively has been such a relief. To just be done with this whole mess.

That's ultimately my biggest complaint about public school in DC. Not the lottery or sibling preference or "boundary fraud" or whatever. It's that the entire system is just exhausting and it never stops -- from PK to high school, there's some level of angst over your kids education and whether you've made the right choices with regards to the lottery, where you live, DCPS v. Charter, etc. It's draining. Right now we're looking at neighborhood outside DC and looking at high schools and the idea of just moving into a school district and then submitting enrollment paperwork and that's the end of it is so amazing.


This is the reality for most families, but another side of that reality is that if your assigned school isn’t working for your kid…that’s it. You deal with it. There is some freedom in having the opportunity to try another school if you’re in that situation.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Everyone who is at those schools with sibling preference first got in without sibling preference pulling them in.


Right, but for the siblings who get in through sibling preference, they didn't get in because of their own lottery results, they got in because of a sibling's results... which isn't fair, especially if it's happening the same year and it pulls a sibling ahead of kids who have higher lottery numbers in the other grade. In addition, it is possible for a family to live IB and get the first kid in without ever doing the lottery, move OOB, and then get all of the rest of their kids into that school through the sibling preference. So I'm still not seeing anything here indicating that the sibling preference in the lottery is fair. It is convenient for those families, for sure... and in some cases possibly a logistical necessity... but not *fair* as a lottery preference.

If you're still having a hard time with this concept, think of how this would work if the DC Lottery (the one for $$) worked this way. What if whenever someone won an amount of money in the lottery, it also gave their family members holding lottery tickets an equal amount of money/ticketholder and decreased the chances that anyone else would win. Would that be *fair* because the family won with one ticket? Now, what if those extra winners used up more than half of the available lottery winnings every year?






Sibling preference is a good for the whole city, because it reduces traffic. It also strengthens that family 's relationship to that school, and that makes the school community stronger.

I know the only child families feel slighted by this but it is a good policy. Sounds like you have really young kids -- Have faith in the process, keep playing, your child may end up getting lucky in year. Don't feel you need to move before K.


Yes, this. Sibling preference is not unfair. If moving is a possibility, move into a feeder pattern you love. You will not regret the ease of walking to school and not thinking about the lottery.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.


Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.


It DC's lottery really the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource? I don't disagree that a lottery of some form may be the fairest method, but I strongly disagree that DC's lottery, as it is currently run with sibling preferences, is actually fair at all. I know families with a bunch of kids like how it operates, but that doesn't make it fair. There is a very good chance that because of the sibling preference, my kid will not get into any of the elementary schools we would like them to attend, even if we lottery for several years. Unless we get exceptionally lucky, our plan is to move when my kid is in kindergarten to be in-bound for one of the schools we want.

Here's our lottery list:

(1) DC Bilingual
(2) Shepherd ES (OOB)
(3) Yu Ying
(4) LAMB
(5) Dorothy Height ES
(6) Breakthrough Montessori
(7) Military Rd.
(8) Whittier ES
(9) Takoma ES

We are extremely unlikely to get into #1-4 because we don't have sibling preference... #5 and below are all fairly likely through either matching or the waitlist process. If we can't get into #1-3 this year, or #1-2 (+ two schools WOTP that start with PK4) in the following two lotteries, we will move.







Idk if this list offers the best examples to show that sibling preference isn’t fair. For example, there are IB kids who don’t get into Shepherd for PK3. And you will likely get into Height, Military Road, or Takoma. FWIW my child attends one of the schools in your top 4, but it took more than one try at the lottery to get a spot.


The sibling preference is generally less of an issue (re: fairness) with DCPS schools, since the in-bound preference takes up most (or all of the seats)... that obviously raises its own fairness issues, but is not really the point of my post. Looking at DC Bilingual's lottery numbers for last year, they offered 72 PK3 slots. 5 went to children of DCB staff... I have no complaint there. It is a logistical nightmare for a teacher to have to get to their own kid to and from a school that they don't teach at while getting to their own school on time. Then, 36 (exactly half of the total available seats!!) went to siblings. Then, 24 went to equitable access, which I also have much less issue with since it is intended to ameliorate the class stratification of schools like DCB (i.e., it addresses a different fairness issue). Which left 7 (yes, less than 10% of the seats) for kids without a preference... i.e., based on their actual lottery number. If you look at Yu Ying and LAMB, you'll see basically the same phenomena.

And yes, it is highly likely that we will get into schools (5) - (8) on our list, which would be completely fine for a few years... but that still means we will need to move out of our neighborhood, which we love, within a few years... and that just sucks. And would we have a much better shot at being able to stay here if we had multiple kids and, thus, multiple lottery entries every year with a guarantee that all of our kids would essentially get the best number of all of the ones that we drew? Yes, we would.






The level of selfishness is fantastic. Those breeders are lowering your precious child’s advantage and that’s not fair! Sounds like you’re an only child raising an only child. Let me guess, you were at an age where you were lucky to be able to have a first kid so a second is out of the question.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.


Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.


I felt exactly this way the first couple years we entered the lottery. But, I now see schools that seemed so hard to reach and excellent had their pros and cons and schools I discounted out of hand had their pros and cons. And, my friends with kids in fancy privates are still having to figure out and cover their kids' needs. So, it does feel a little less weighty...years down the line. (Though..middle school another story.)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
I don't. They aren't fair, but they are the system everywhere I have ever seen (in the US) and I don't think they are going anywhere, so I don't waste my energy having feelings about their existence. Lol. In some places though, where charters are decent and each charter conducts its own lottery, charters are a partial solution to the unfairness of school boundaries. Here, charters have no boundaries, but they still have the same crappy sibling preference issue.


You do realize that each charter sets its own preferences, right? (I thought each school but maybe its each LEA so DCPS has uniform preferences across all schools.) So, you could easily lobby a specific charter and ask they consider dropping the sibling preference. They likely won't drop that or staff preference either because schools are communities and what's "fair" isn't as binary as you seem to think.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Reading this thread is interesting because I can see both sides of every issue. I'm a lottery veteran (this will be our 5th year) and have seen it work well and also seen it screw people over. It's a tough system, but probably more fair than the old system where there were no charters or all city schools at all and going to a school outside our IB was nearly impossible.

But really the whole conversation just makes me very tired, and the more angry and defensive people get in these conversations, the more tired I get. We recently made the decision to move before our kid hits high school, and making that decision definitively has been such a relief. To just be done with this whole mess.

That's ultimately my biggest complaint about public school in DC. Not the lottery or sibling preference or "boundary fraud" or whatever. It's that the entire system is just exhausting and it never stops -- from PK to high school, there's some level of angst over your kids education and whether you've made the right choices with regards to the lottery, where you live, DCPS v. Charter, etc. It's draining. Right now we're looking at neighborhood outside DC and looking at high schools and the idea of just moving into a school district and then submitting enrollment paperwork and that's the end of it is so amazing.


I hear you. Except, our friends did this. Then discovered their MoCo zoned school was not serving their child -- with newly diagnosed ADHD -- at all well. And so, they have to go private because there are no other choices. Nothing is as easy as it should be or I remember from being a kid!!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not looking forward to the results. It seems like winning the lottery is almost impossible. This is a really frustrating and unfortunate. Quality schools should be a human right.


Most people eventually get into their top choice schools for elementary at least. I know the process seems impossible, but it's just the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource. Should the resource be scarce? I mean, no, but it is so this is what we get.


It DC's lottery really the fairest way to distribute a scarce resource? I don't disagree that a lottery of some form may be the fairest method, but I strongly disagree that DC's lottery, as it is currently run with sibling preferences, is actually fair at all. I know families with a bunch of kids like how it operates, but that doesn't make it fair. There is a very good chance that because of the sibling preference, my kid will not get into any of the elementary schools we would like them to attend, even if we lottery for several years. Unless we get exceptionally lucky, our plan is to move when my kid is in kindergarten to be in-bound for one of the schools we want.

Here's our lottery list:

(1) DC Bilingual
(2) Shepherd ES (OOB)
(3) Yu Ying
(4) LAMB
(5) Dorothy Height ES
(6) Breakthrough Montessori
(7) Military Rd.
(8) Whittier ES
(9) Takoma ES

We are extremely unlikely to get into #1-4 because we don't have sibling preference... #5 and below are all fairly likely through either matching or the waitlist process. If we can't get into #1-3 this year, or #1-2 (+ two schools WOTP that start with PK4) in the following two lotteries, we will move.







Idk if this list offers the best examples to show that sibling preference isn’t fair. For example, there are IB kids who don’t get into Shepherd for PK3. And you will likely get into Height, Military Road, or Takoma. FWIW my child attends one of the schools in your top 4, but it took more than one try at the lottery to get a spot.


The sibling preference is generally less of an issue (re: fairness) with DCPS schools, since the in-bound preference takes up most (or all of the seats)... that obviously raises its own fairness issues, but is not really the point of my post. Looking at DC Bilingual's lottery numbers for last year, they offered 72 PK3 slots. 5 went to children of DCB staff... I have no complaint there. It is a logistical nightmare for a teacher to have to get to their own kid to and from a school that they don't teach at while getting to their own school on time. Then, 36 (exactly half of the total available seats!!) went to siblings. Then, 24 went to equitable access, which I also have much less issue with since it is intended to ameliorate the class stratification of schools like DCB (i.e., it addresses a different fairness issue). Which left 7 (yes, less than 10% of the seats) for kids without a preference... i.e., based on their actual lottery number. If you look at Yu Ying and LAMB, you'll see basically the same phenomena.

And yes, it is highly likely that we will get into schools (5) - (8) on our list, which would be completely fine for a few years... but that still means we will need to move out of our neighborhood, which we love, within a few years... and that just sucks. And would we have a much better shot at being able to stay here if we had multiple kids and, thus, multiple lottery entries every year with a guarantee that all of our kids would essentially get the best number of all of the ones that we drew? Yes, we would.






The level of selfishness is fantastic. Those breeders are lowering your precious child’s advantage and that’s not fair! Sounds like you’re an only child raising an only child. Let me guess, you were at an age where you were lucky to be able to have a first kid so a second is out of the question.


Your assumptions are hilariously off-base, but I did appreciate the good laugh. And yes, I agree that the breeders (good word choice, btw…I approve!) using the sibling preference are taking up more seats than they should, especially since those families with kids above PK got in before the equitable access preference existed… so them being allowed sibling preference just perpetuates those schools’ demographic status quo.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I don't. They aren't fair, but they are the system everywhere I have ever seen (in the US) and I don't think they are going anywhere, so I don't waste my energy having feelings about their existence. Lol. In some places though, where charters are decent and each charter conducts its own lottery, charters are a partial solution to the unfairness of school boundaries. Here, charters have no boundaries, but they still have the same crappy sibling preference issue.


You do realize that each charter sets its own preferences, right? (I thought each school but maybe its each LEA so DCPS has uniform preferences across all schools.) So, you could easily lobby a specific charter and ask they consider dropping the sibling preference. They likely won't drop that or staff preference either because schools are communities and what's "fair" isn't as binary as you seem to think.


I’m curious to know how much leeway LEAs actually have. I think it’s noteworthy that all of them have adopted equitable access seat within the past two years—doing so is counter-intuitive for a charter unless, of course, there is some kind of penalty for not adopting. My guess is that the city is exerting some kind of pressure to get them to make that “choice.”

Also, it’s interesting that Bridges PCS (I hope I’m remembering the correct school) is the only school approved to have a preference for disabled students… so the city is clearly exerting some control over which charters can offer which preferences.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, if you only have one child, you only have to commit residency fraud once to get your kid into a JR feeder. No moving in and out of bounds every few years for each kid.


It's not residency fraud....

God, that thread was a week of my life I'm never getting back.


Ha, I know. I was just poking the bear.


OP, I hear you, it IS unfair for us, even if it generally is fair overall. If your decision to stay in the city rides on whether you get into DCI feeder (which I don't think it should, but that's a different conversation), then you are 100% correct that the sibling preference system makes it overwhelmingly less likely that it will work out eventually. Which absolutely sucks when you see everyone else around you not having to make the same crappy decision. That said, give it some time. You may get lucky, or you may realize that you are perfectly happy at Takoma or Whittier for all of elementary and are willing to keep playing the lottery for longer than you think. Seats open up in elementary, particularly if you are willing to commute farther or switch in later grades.


I'm OP and just wanted to clarify that I am not the PP who suggested they might sublet to get in-bound for a desirable school (though I did mentally give that idea a +1... ). TBH, we would be happy with any school that looks (based on test scores and other factors) like it generally serves kids who look like my kid well, not just a DCI feeder... but the only three schools I have been able to identify that do that are schools (1)-(3) on my list. Two of them happen to be DCI feeders. We are not interested in some of the other DCI feeders (e.g., either MV campus) because they do not serve kids who look like my kid as well. We aren't even interested in LAMB for more than a few years because their faculty has diversity issues. Basically, I'm FAR from DCI or bust... I'm "my kids needs to attend a school where they will not be presumed to be low-skilled or less competent than their peers because of racism." It really, really sucks that that's such a tall order in DC in 2024, but it remains the truth nonetheless. [To anyone who wants to try to try to "explain" to me that the huge performance gaps that many schools here are explained by socioeconomic factors... yes, SES plays a huge role, but SES doesn't explain all of it... and I taught for long enough to see how racism works in schools, even when the teachers and administration are extremely well-meaning and concerned about it.]






NP and if that’s what you are looking for I would strongly consider Whittier. It is an amazing school that supports all students.


Whittier does unquestionably outperform all of the other DCPS schools in our area in terms of equity for Black students, which is awesome (yay, Whittier!)…and something I am well aware of. 🙂 The reason Whittier is as low as it is on our list is because we are hoping for a more play-based PK program and Whittier’s is much more academic than Military Rd’s or DH’s, or even Breakthrough’s… and we could easily switch to Whittier (IB) starting in K, if we wanted to.

That said, I do *not* think Whittier would be a bad choice for my kiddo for K-5 (I would rank it above LAMB, DH, and Breakthrough for those grades)…except that we do not feel the same way about Wells and Coolidge, and we are not going to risk getting stuck there for MS/HS, so we would then still be looking to move before the end of elementary school… and if we have to move anyway, we are going to do it sooner rather than later for other life reasons having nothing to do with schooling. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:On the plus side, if you only have one child, you only have to commit residency fraud once to get your kid into a JR feeder. No moving in and out of bounds every few years for each kid.


It's not residency fraud....

God, that thread was a week of my life I'm never getting back.


Ha, I know. I was just poking the bear.


OP, I hear you, it IS unfair for us, even if it generally is fair overall. If your decision to stay in the city rides on whether you get into DCI feeder (which I don't think it should, but that's a different conversation), then you are 100% correct that the sibling preference system makes it overwhelmingly less likely that it will work out eventually. Which absolutely sucks when you see everyone else around you not having to make the same crappy decision. That said, give it some time. You may get lucky, or you may realize that you are perfectly happy at Takoma or Whittier for all of elementary and are willing to keep playing the lottery for longer than you think. Seats open up in elementary, particularly if you are willing to commute farther or switch in later grades.


I'm OP and just wanted to clarify that I am not the PP who suggested they might sublet to get in-bound for a desirable school (though I did mentally give that idea a +1... ). TBH, we would be happy with any school that looks (based on test scores and other factors) like it generally serves kids who look like my kid well, not just a DCI feeder... but the only three schools I have been able to identify that do that are schools (1)-(3) on my list. Two of them happen to be DCI feeders. We are not interested in some of the other DCI feeders (e.g., either MV campus) because they do not serve kids who look like my kid as well. We aren't even interested in LAMB for more than a few years because their faculty has diversity issues. Basically, I'm FAR from DCI or bust... I'm "my kids needs to attend a school where they will not be presumed to be low-skilled or less competent than their peers because of racism." It really, really sucks that that's such a tall order in DC in 2024, but it remains the truth nonetheless. [To anyone who wants to try to try to "explain" to me that the huge performance gaps that many schools here are explained by socioeconomic factors... yes, SES plays a huge role, but SES doesn't explain all of it... and I taught for long enough to see how racism works in schools, even when the teachers and administration are extremely well-meaning and concerned about it.]






NP and if that’s what you are looking for I would strongly consider Whittier. It is an amazing school that supports all students.


Whittier does unquestionably outperform all of the other DCPS schools in our area in terms of equity for Black students, which is awesome (yay, Whittier!)…and something I am well aware of. 🙂 The reason Whittier is as low as it is on our list is because we are hoping for a more play-based PK program and Whittier’s is much more academic than Military Rd’s or DH’s, or even Breakthrough’s… and we could easily switch to Whittier (IB) starting in K, if we wanted to.

That said, I do *not* think Whittier would be a bad choice for my kiddo for K-5 (I would rank it above LAMB, DH, and Breakthrough for those grades)…except that we do not feel the same way about Wells and Coolidge, and we are not going to risk getting stuck there for MS/HS, so we would then still be looking to move before the end of elementary school… and if we have to move anyway, we are going to do it sooner rather than later for other life reasons having nothing to do with schooling. 🤷🏻‍♂️


If you like your house, neighborhood, and Whittier, then just do that. Worst that happens is you rent inbounds for Deal for a month or year or however long. Or maybe something will work out in the 8 years in between.
Anonymous
This thread has started to get super weird.
Anonymous
I hear a lot about Whittier being a great DCPS in ward 4. What about Takoma? It was on the list a few pages ago which is why I ask.

We don’t have kids old enough yet but can’t wait (not) to do the lottery next year (we live in ward 4 but will be able to do drop off anywhere).

Not anti charter. But we like the idea of a DCPS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I hear a lot about Whittier being a great DCPS in ward 4. What about Takoma? It was on the list a few pages ago which is why I ask.

We don’t have kids old enough yet but can’t wait (not) to do the lottery next year (we live in ward 4 but will be able to do drop off anywhere).

Not anti charter. But we like the idea of a DCPS.


Takoma is nice, especially if you want your kids to do orchestra.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I hear a lot about Whittier being a great DCPS in ward 4. What about Takoma? It was on the list a few pages ago which is why I ask.

We don’t have kids old enough yet but can’t wait (not) to do the lottery next year (we live in ward 4 but will be able to do drop off anywhere).

Not anti charter. But we like the idea of a DCPS.


IMO, which may not be worth much , Takoma is a wildcard. We liked the PK program when we visited (teachers seemed relatively engaged and class sizes were small) and the administration seems, for the most part, to know what's going on, especially compared to some of the other schools we visited (I'm looking at you, Brightwood and Barnard). But it didn't seem as organized or to have as strong a community as Whittier (so much school pride) or Height (PTO is super active). We know several families with kids in various grades there who love it and say they would absolutely choose it again... but we also have several friends who didn't have a good experience and transferred out (mostly to charters, but two to other DCPS schools that don't look any better than Takoma on paper) and know one PK3 family that had a terrible experience there pretty much all year and is trying to lottery into basically any other school in our area (or will go private) for PK4. Even that family, however, acknowledges that the families they know in the other PK3 class are super happy and that they probably wouldn't be planning to transfer out of they had ended up in the other PK3 class. So basically, it seems like kids' experiences there are highly variable depending on which teachers they get. I know that's obviously true at any school (some teachers are better than others... duh) but it seems like there may be more extremes amongst the teaching staff at Takoma, like you might get a longterm sub unqualified to teach PK followed by a PK teacher who doesn't respond to any parent emails or phone calls at all, or you might get an awesome PK teacher with tons of experience who sends you updates at least daily. That's why it seems like a wildcard to me.
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