New College Focus on AP Tests and GDS

[Anonymous]

Here's the GDS email - sent AUGUST 25 2023. With zero heads up - not even saying this would be a change for 2025.

+ + +

Dear High School families,

We are writing to you regarding Advanced Placement (AP) tests. Since 2018, GDS has implemented a High School curriculum that allows teachers to develop Upper Level (UL) courses that engage students deeply in college-level coursework without the restrictions of the College Board’s AP curriculum. UL courses represent the most advanced classes at GDS, and our college and university admissions colleagues understand these offerings well. Our curriculum no longer includes AP courses, and UL courses are not designed to follow the AP curriculum or to prepare students to take AP tests. In light of this, beginning this year, GDS will no longer administer AP tests on our campus. Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework.

Students who wish to independently prepare for and take AP tests (to earn college credits or to support applications to overseas universities) may still do so. The College Board provides a comprehensive listing of locations where students may sit for tests if the tests are not offered at their home institution. For those students who plan to study for and take AP tests, we encourage you to begin the registration process in September as test ordering deadlines are typically in early fall. Students receiving financial aid will still receive support from GDS and should contact the College Counseling Office for more information.

Please feel free to connect with any member of the College Counseling team if you have questions about the role of AP testing in the admissions process. We are happy to help you think through your choice and determine whether the work required to study for and take an AP test is worthwhile for your goals. In most cases, it is best not to add this work onto an already full plate as it has no impact on the admissions process at any US institution.

[Anonymous]

OP,

It’s fine. Just prep for SAT/ACT like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day, it might be better to just send your child to a public school.

[Anonymous]

GDS should offer on-campus administration of AP exams, so students & parents do not have to scramble to find another school who will let DC sit the AP exams.

The well-off families very likely will find a way for DC to sit AP exams, but the scholarship kids at GDS probably will not be as successful. So much for “equity”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS should offer on-campus administration of AP exams, so students & parents do not have to scramble to find another school who will let DC sit the AP exams.

The well-off families very likely will find a way for DC to sit AP exams, but the scholarship kids at GDS probably will not be as successful. So much for “equity”.

Exactly! It's such a performative decision. Only hurts kids they claim to want to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the GDS email - sent AUGUST 25 2023. With zero heads up - not even saying this would be a change for 2025.

+ + +

Dear High School families,

We are writing to you regarding Advanced Placement (AP) tests. Since 2018, GDS has implemented a High School curriculum that allows teachers to develop Upper Level (UL) courses that engage students deeply in college-level coursework without the restrictions of the College Board’s AP curriculum. UL courses represent the most advanced classes at GDS, and our college and university admissions colleagues understand these offerings well. Our curriculum no longer includes AP courses, and UL courses are not designed to follow the AP curriculum or to prepare students to take AP tests. In light of this, beginning this year, GDS will no longer administer AP tests on our campus. Over the last year, our team has been in conversation with dozens of college admissions offices from small liberal arts colleges to large flagship state institutions. In each of these conversations, we have confirmed what we shared with families when GDS moved away from AP courses: For college admissions, there is no advantage to taking AP tests if you attend a high school that does not offer that coursework.

Students who wish to independently prepare for and take AP tests (to earn college credits or to support applications to overseas universities) may still do so. The College Board provides a comprehensive listing of locations where students may sit for tests if the tests are not offered at their home institution. For those students who plan to study for and take AP tests, we encourage you to begin the registration process in September as test ordering deadlines are typically in early fall. Students receiving financial aid will still receive support from GDS and should contact the College Counseling Office for more information.

Please feel free to connect with any member of the College Counseling team if you have questions about the role of AP testing in the admissions process. We are happy to help you think through your choice and determine whether the work required to study for and take an AP test is worthwhile for your goals. In most cases, it is best not to add this work onto an already full plate as it has no impact on the admissions process at any US institution.

The bolded above is utter BS....

[Anonymous]

Immediate prior poster is 100% correct.

[Anonymous]

Info on Oxford - just scroll down to USA sectio - AP tests are required

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/for-international-students/international-qualifications

For GDS I agree that needing to do more studying on your own versus it being taught in class seems to just hurt those who are not as well off. So it could be perceived as causing more equity issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immediate prior poster is 100% correct.

Yup GDS "safety-ism" at work. trying to protect kids from perceived harms and by doing so, actually causing inequity and trouble.

No one is forcing anyone to take an AP test self study. By cutting off that option on campus, who exactly are they protecting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a huge mistake to stop offering the exams on site. All it did was make it extremely difficult for those kids who were going to sit for an exam anyway (and their parents who had to waste time trying to find another school that would allow a non-student to sit). I can’t fathom why they would have a problem with continuing to offer this option for students who want to use it. Any purported equity rationale is ludicrous - just read the statement from Yale today (like others before it) explaining why requiring test scores actually promotes equity. To be fair, at the junior meeting this year, CCO did encourage taking SAT or ACT and acknowledged that colleges are now saying that test scores matter even under test optional. Not sure why CCO refuses to acknowledge that this applies to AP tests as well.

Did any parent screw their courage to the sticking point, raise their hand, and ask?

So that’s a “No”? All these parents complaining yet none of you has actually gone to the school and addressed it directly with admin? Don’t you all care about all those poor kids on FA being disadvantaged? Not enough to speak up, apparently.

[Anonymous]

AP classes matter if you are applying to UC schools. Impossible to get in OOS without any AP classes. Maybe GDS kids don’t want to go to UCLA, Cal, UCSD, etc.?!?

[Anonymous]

Yale said in new podcast today, they only expect to see AP scores IF your school offers the class and even then, you can still choose to submit them or not, as long as you submit a score. Negative is that if you take an AP class, and are submitting AP as your test requirement, you must submit all APs and if you take AP, and choose another test requirement instead and don’t submit APs, they recommend you provide explanation. Personally, I think this benefits GDS and schools without AP because then you can choose what test or tests to submit whereas if you take AP class you almost have to submit the scores and all of them, and you don’t get option for your ‘best 3’ like NYU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

Do you work for Oxford or Cambridge? How do you know?

Because as I say in my post, I read what the "admissions requirements" are on their websites. Could you BE any more stupid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

AP is just a money-making scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

Do you work for Oxford or Cambridge? How do you know?

Because as I say in my post, I read what the "admissions requirements" are on their websites. Could you BE any more stupid?

Actually, I didn't want to highlight your stupidity...but if you pay close attention to the Oxford requirements and understand what AAA vs. AA*A or AAB mean...there are in fact certain areas of study that don't require AP test scores...however, even Boarding school kids still take the AP tests because it makes the application easier.

I am sure if the Andover headmaster picked up the phone and called their contact at Oxford, explained the kid's situation for that field of study, and produced documentation that their abilities were sufficient...that the Oxford person would accept it.