New College Focus on AP Tests and GDS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is more the lack of testing AT GDS rather than the course designation. Why make it so hard for GDS kids to take those tests? Seems short-sighted and puts those kids at a disadvantage.

Totally short sighted but the head of the CCO is against all forms of standardized testing. So this is entirely on brand for her agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

GDS parent here. Sadly it’s not “odd” at all. The school has taken a stance against standardized testing (because “equity”). So the natural outcome of that is exactly where we are now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYU requires three AP scores even if you have not taken AP classes? That seems like a real equity issue.

NO. They allow you to submit 3 AP scores instead of ACT/SAT if you want. 'Test flexible' like Yale next year.

Yale now requires that you submit all AP exam scores for the tests that a student took but there is no min/max number of tests.

Not this cycle. You didn't have to submit any.

It appears there are many, many kids that don't even sit for the exams these days. Our school requires kids to sit for the exams or they fail them for the course.

It seems fishy and a loophole for kids to claim they didn't take a test when they get a low score and not submit it...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me is more the lack of testing AT GDS rather than the course designation. Why make it so hard for GDS kids to take those tests? Seems short-sighted and puts those kids at a disadvantage.

And they seem to be the only school with this particular problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

Do you work for Oxford or Cambridge? How do you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

GDS parent here. Sadly it’s not “odd” at all. The school has taken a stance against standardized testing (because “equity”). So the natural outcome of that is exactly where we are now.

That is odd because the public school down the street allows and encourages AP for all and pays for the testing, also in the name of equity. Seems they got it right and GDS got it wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

Do you work for Oxford or Cambridge? How do you know?

It it quite clear on their web sites.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/for-international-students/international-qualifications

"For courses requiring A*A*A:

Either Four APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to)

OR

Three APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to) plus a score of 33 or above in the ACT or 1480 or above (out of 1600) in the SAT. We do not require the optional essay for either the ACT or the SAT.

Please note that Calculus AB and Calculus BC cannot be counted as two separate subjects for the purposes of meeting your offer, whether taken as separate tests or by receiving the AB sub-score when taking Calculus BC.

If you are applying for a course that requires Mathematics you should take Calculus BC if you are able to do so. However, courses will accept Calculus AB if you are unable to take Calculus BC.

The following combinations of Physics courses can be counted as two separate qualifications for the purposes of meeting your offer:

Physics C: Mechanics, and Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
Physics 1 and Physics 2
Physics 1 and Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
Physics 2 and Physics C: Mechanics
If you are taking both Physics C courses, or both Physics 1 and Physics 2, you will not be able to count any additional Physics courses towards your offer requirements. In addition, only the specified combinations of Physics 1/2 and Physics C are permitted.

For courses requiring A*AA:

Either Four APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to)

OR

Three APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to) plus a score of 32 or above in the ACT or 1470 or above (out of 1600) in the SAT. We do not require the optional essay for either the ACT or the SAT."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, people should know what GDS’s approach and philosophy is before they enroll their child there. If a family doesn’t like it, look elsewhere for private schooling.

This^^^

In reality, anyone at GDS can also manage to study/testprep and take the SAT/ACT until they get the score they feel is "reflective of their kid's academic abilities"

It's not Submit AP and ACT/SAT. It's an option for kids who do better on the AP tests than the SATs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

Seems like a good set-up. You take whatever classes you want and then whatever tests you want and only submit the scores you like. No one need know that you bombed all your standardized tests and you don’t have to explain why you didn’t take any AP classes or tests because your school doesn’t offer them.

What are GDS parents complaining about?

[Anonymous]

Why do parents think schools will continue with the same policies they had when their kid entered at K? Schools change all the time. You accept the changes or you move. Or you can protest but no one here ever says they have taken their complaints to GDS admin.

[Anonymous]

It was a huge mistake to stop offering the exams on site. All it did was make it extremely difficult for those kids who were going to sit for an exam anyway (and their parents who had to waste time trying to find another school that would allow a non-student to sit). I can’t fathom why they would have a problem with continuing to offer this option for students who want to use it. Any purported equity rationale is ludicrous - just read the statement from Yale today (like others before it) explaining why requiring test scores actually promotes equity. To be fair, at the junior meeting this year, CCO did encourage taking SAT or ACT and acknowledged that colleges are now saying that test scores matter even under test optional. Not sure why CCO refuses to acknowledge that this applies to AP tests as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was a huge mistake to stop offering the exams on site. All it did was make it extremely difficult for those kids who were going to sit for an exam anyway (and their parents who had to waste time trying to find another school that would allow a non-student to sit). I can’t fathom why they would have a problem with continuing to offer this option for students who want to use it. Any purported equity rationale is ludicrous - just read the statement from Yale today (like others before it) explaining why requiring test scores actually promotes equity. To be fair, at the junior meeting this year, CCO did encourage taking SAT or ACT and acknowledged that colleges are now saying that test scores matter even under test optional. Not sure why CCO refuses to acknowledge that this applies to AP tests as well.

Did any parent screw their courage to the sticking point, raise their hand, and ask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

This is how the NE boarding schools work. No APs and students who choose to self study and test hand pick what they report. It’s the trend at selective private schools in general because teachers despised the rigid AP curriculum. I imagine it would be hard to switch back.

NE boarding schools have luxuries that even top DMV schools do not. I bet they have direct contacts at Oxford/Cambridge so those schools may accept an A at Andover as the equivalent of a 5 on an AP test or whatever equivalent of Eton in the UK. They also probably have a small army communicating with all the top 20 schools on a regular basis.

I think what is odd about GDS is that when all the schools announced they would drop the AP curriculum, they simultaneously agreed they would still offer the AP tests. It is strange that STA/NCS backtracked even more and actually reinstated some AP classes. GDS is the only school to drop both the AP curriculum and the tests.

No. That is not how it works. For Oxford & Cambridge you will need 5 actual AP exams at level 5 in the relevant subjects, SAT scores over 1480 (varies but depends on AP scores and subject), an interview and sometimes additional testing. If someone from Eton is applying to these universities they are taking A levels or IB in the UK, not AP tests. You only need look at the university websites for "admissions requirements" to know this. Please don't make up crap and then try to sell it as truths.

Do you work for Oxford or Cambridge? How do you know?

It it quite clear on their web sites.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/for-international-students/international-qualifications

"For courses requiring A*A*A:

Either Four APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to)

OR

Three APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to) plus a score of 33 or above in the ACT or 1480 or above (out of 1600) in the SAT. We do not require the optional essay for either the ACT or the SAT.

Please note that Calculus AB and Calculus BC cannot be counted as two separate subjects for the purposes of meeting your offer, whether taken as separate tests or by receiving the AB sub-score when taking Calculus BC.

If you are applying for a course that requires Mathematics you should take Calculus BC if you are able to do so. However, courses will accept Calculus AB if you are unable to take Calculus BC.

The following combinations of Physics courses can be counted as two separate qualifications for the purposes of meeting your offer:

Physics C: Mechanics, and Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
Physics 1 and Physics 2
Physics 1 and Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism
Physics 2 and Physics C: Mechanics
If you are taking both Physics C courses, or both Physics 1 and Physics 2, you will not be able to count any additional Physics courses towards your offer requirements. In addition, only the specified combinations of Physics 1/2 and Physics C are permitted.

For courses requiring A*AA:

Either Four APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to)

OR

Three APs at grade 5 (including any subjects required for the course you are applying to) plus a score of 32 or above in the ACT or 1470 or above (out of 1600) in the SAT. We do not require the optional essay for either the ACT or the SAT."

I don't see anywhere on the Harvard, Yale, etc. website that there is any special preference for a kid from Andover. You honestly think there isn't because nothing is on the website.

You think there is no special preference or other venues for a kid from Eton to get into Oxford or Cambridge because it isn't on the website?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the AP industrial complex generally, but having said that, isn't it the case that you would not be expected to take APs if your school does not offer AP classes? My kids went to a BIg 3 school with only one or two AP classes. They took several more exams but only reported the results if they did well. Seemed to work out fine.

Seems like a good set-up. You take whatever classes you want and then whatever tests you want and only submit the scores you like. No one need know that you bombed all your standardized tests and you don’t have to explain why you didn’t take any AP classes or tests because your school doesn’t offer them.

What are GDS parents complaining about?

Because unlike Sidwell or STA/NCS, GDS doesn't offer the AP test. Nobody cares if the class is technically taught to AP standards...they care that you can still take the test if you wish.

AP tests are not like the SAT/ACT...there are not independent centers someone can go in order to take the test. Again, if those existed, there would not be any issues.

The Yale announcement was actually important with respect to AP scores. Up until today, the official word from top schools was that AP scores were not relevant to admissions, just class placement. This actually significantly changes the value of the AP score.