Eastern and Takoma Park MS Magnet feedback

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Math isn't your strong suit.

And basic politeness isn’t yours. I’d rather screw up the math and ask for correction (which I did) than respond as you did.

To the other PP - first, thanks for the math correction. It’s been a long week. I’m curious about the actual percentage of kids who decline. Anecdotally, every kid I know who has been offered a spot has taken it, even ones who initially were on the fence ended up accepting. That’s maybe 20 total, so not many, but I’m doubtful that the majority of kids initially offered spots don’t take them, to the point that “almost all” kids in the lottery pool were offered spots at Eastern (for example).

Ultimately, math errors aside, my original point stands: it’s obnoxious to yell “sour grapes” at a parent whose kid doesn’t get in.

Strange. I know so many people who turned down Eastern in the past two years and no one who accepted, though I’m sure it’s a great program. This includes both of my kids, who both turned it down for TPMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure why how many families turn down is a benchmark here. Isn’t the question whether the program is good? It seems families who attend uniformly say “it is worth your while” and families that do not attend say “it isn’t worth your while but we didn’t actually test the results”. I expect families who attended would be a better judge of the actual results while families that did not attend have a vested interest in believing it is the same as they would get in their home school.

Unless of course you are just trying to keep up with the Joneses. Then by all means what families rejected it think should be a primary criteria.

Our DD that is now at a “W” HS attended the magnet. Our DS who was one year behind stayed at our local middle school. There was literally no comparison of the academic rigor and skill development between them. Our 9th grade W HS curriculum seems on par with the 6th grade expectations at Eastern. I wish I could say I was kidding. Objectively I did think 6th grade at Eastern was very hard, but it also say something about the non-magnet middle schools.

The reason the discussion of how many kids turn it down is pertinent is because folks are trying to gauge how strong their kids chances might be if they are placed in the pool but not offered a place initially.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

But then when you also include the ESOL, 504, FARMS kids who meet a lower bar for inclusion you're back up to 5k kids in the pool.

None of you are taking into account that Eastern is just one of two humanities magnets. Kids also go to an upcounty version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Just a reminder of the definition of magnet school, which is not 'kids who need enrichment': a public school offering special instruction and programs not available elsewhere, designed to attract a more diverse student body from throughout a school district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Just a reminder of the definition of magnet school, which is not 'kids who need enrichment': a public school offering special instruction and programs not available elsewhere, designed to attract a more diverse student body from throughout a school district.

That may be your definition but definitely not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Just a reminder of the definition of magnet school, which is not 'kids who need enrichment': a public school offering special instruction and programs not available elsewhere, designed to attract a more diverse student body from throughout a school district.

That may be your definition but definitely not mine.

Both of these definitions should be kept in mind. The magnet makes Eastern much more diverse than it would be without. If even 1/3 of the seats were going to Latinx students on FARMs, I would agree with concerns about the second function. They aren’t. The greatest demographic shifts are white students with SN and African or MENA immigrants/children of immigrants.

There should be a spot for a hardworking gifted, but not highly gifted kid whose homeschool peers are performing at or below grade level. Otherwise, we’re saying that it’s okay for that kid to stagnate while providing a seat for a highly gifted student whose homeschool has many highly gifted peers. We let potential wither on the vine when it comes to zip codes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

But then when you also include the ESOL, 504, FARMS kids who meet a lower bar for inclusion you're back up to 5k kids in the pool.

None of you are taking into account that Eastern is just one of two humanities magnets. Kids also go to an upcounty version.

Not true. Read the last two posts on page 3 for example.

[Anonymous]

We have had one kid go to Eastern and one go to Takoma Park. Both magnets are great. Overall, we liked the administration, school building, overall way the school is run, etc of Takoma Park better. But our kid who went to Eastern was much more of a Humanities type kid, and turned down a spot at TPMS for the Eastern spot. He made friends at Eastern both in and out of the magnet program. He did clubs and he had great teachers and some teachers that were not so great. Overall, he says he would do the program again and enjoyed it. Our other kid loved TPMS, but is more of a math/science kid and had friends inside and outside of the magnet and did clubs, etc. So really, I think it depends on your kid and possibly how long the commute it.

[Anonymous]

I've had 2 kids go through the Eastern magnet. Sure, the building is not good, but the opportunity is so worth it. They really got such strong training in writing, structuring an argument, finding and citing evidence, etc. I think it's such fantastic education and I'm grateful my kids got lucky in the lottery.