Eastern and Takoma Park MS Magnet feedback

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Seems like the biggest consideration is the commute. I looked at the bus schedule and it seems like from where we are, the kids are on the bus for nearly an hour.

Are there other Pyle-zoned families that can tell us that the commute is worth the program?

We know that we haven't gotten a spot from the lottery yet, but trying to mentally prepare because I know the turn around time to accept if we do get a spot is very quick.

Not Pyle but Bethesda. DCs at Eastern and Takoma magnets. We carpooled in the AM. Carpool carefully selected for close neighbors. Kids took bus home in PM - either directly afterschool or the "activities bus" which dropped off in a cluster elementary that was reasonably close to home but required pick up by car.

Neither kid complained about 1 hr plus bus ride - since others on bus were also magnet kids (from Takoma and Blair and Eastern), they made a lot of friends and socialized. Sometimes they did their homework on the bus, sometimes they used it as downtime. Not sure bus time matters as much to kids as parents. It is the only time of the day they have without parental supervision or more than basic safety rules or any obligation to do anything. My kids always loved that.

Both programs well worth commute and shaped for the better DCs academic and life trajectory. Both schools have a wider SES than home school and both kids feel this was a beneficial part of their education - to recognize other people's life circumstances a navigate racial and SES differences with dignity to all. (Peers taught this, not necessarily teachers at the programs.)

Agree with others that you accept automatically and then take time to look at specifics. AIR, there is an accepted students day. Not sure if this is happening post-pandemic again.

This is all so great. Wise info here, OP. Read this one quoted above.

Yes- bus is the one time the kids can sort of do … whatever.

Magnet schools great for teaching navigating a truly diverse setting.

I have two kids who did Eastern and it really is a remarkable program for writing/analysis.

Good luck. I hope you have the choice!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

[Anonymous]

My two cents:
6th grade: magnet kids had harder social transition to middle school, kids who matriculated to home schools easier foray into middle school
7th grade: magnet kids happy/challenged, home school kids very bored and unchallenged

Also, OP, I wouldn’t be so sure they will use the exact same process or criteria this year. They often tweak it. Also, in the new proposed budget, it looks like a lot of AEI is getting slashed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Math isn't your strong suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

But then when you also include the ESOL, 504, FARMS kids who meet a lower bar for inclusion you're back up to 5k kids in the pool.

[Anonymous]

Someone should file a MD Public Information Act request. MCPS must disclose when asked under MPIA things like - # of kids in the pools, # of kids offered seats, # of kids matriculated, # of FARMS, IEP, 504, etc. and racial and gender makeup of pool and acceptees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

But then when you also include the ESOL, 504, FARMS kids who meet a lower bar for inclusion you're back up to 5k kids in the pool.

There is no evidence at all that all the kids that fall into those groups are in the pool and plenty of evidence that they are not. MCPS has been vague about how they take that into account but it certainly hasn’t expanded the pool significantly so your ludicrous claim that 50 percent of kids are in the pool is unfounded.

[Anonymous]

Do they teach anti-racist math at TPMS? That's very important to me as a progressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Math isn't your strong suit.

And basic politeness isn’t yours. I’d rather screw up the math and ask for correction (which I did) than respond as you did.

To the other PP - first, thanks for the math correction. It’s been a long week. I’m curious about the actual percentage of kids who decline. Anecdotally, every kid I know who has been offered a spot has taken it, even ones who initially were on the fence ended up accepting. That’s maybe 20 total, so not many, but I’m doubtful that the majority of kids initially offered spots don’t take them, to the point that “almost all” kids in the lottery pool were offered spots at Eastern (for example).

Ultimately, math errors aside, my original point stands: it’s obnoxious to yell “sour grapes” at a parent whose kid doesn’t get in.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure why how many families turn down is a benchmark here. Isn’t the question whether the program is good? It seems families who attend uniformly say “it is worth your while” and families that do not attend say “it isn’t worth your while but we didn’t actually test the results”. I expect families who attended would be a better judge of the actual results while families that did not attend have a vested interest in believing it is the same as they would get in their home school.

Unless of course you are just trying to keep up with the Joneses. Then by all means what families rejected it think should be a primary criteria.

Our DD that is now at a “W” HS attended the magnet. Our DS who was one year behind stayed at our local middle school. There was literally no comparison of the academic rigor and skill development between them. Our 9th grade W HS curriculum seems on par with the 6th grade expectations at Eastern. I wish I could say I was kidding. Objectively I did think 6th grade at Eastern was very hard, but it also say something about the non-magnet middle schools.

[Anonymous]

The home school offerings and the magnet selection process have changed enough that I doubt experiences from more than two years ago are representative of current situation. The commute and strength of home school made it a no two years ago for us.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

Half are not eligible. 15 percent are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The programs are fantastic but unfortunately the lottery isn't all that great at identifying kids that really need the enrichment.

Sour grapes.

Btw, almost everyone in the pool was offered Eastern last year.

We were in the pool and still haven’t gotten an offer. Know lots of other people in the same situation. -NP

Strange. I know dozens offered.

NP - I find that hard to believe. “Dozens” offered? How do you even keep track of these things? Moreover, to conclude that “almost everyone” was offered a spot because of your individual experience is what’s strange.

NP. It was quite remarkable actually - it felt much different than other years as people just kept getting offered the Eastern spots. It was referenced on DCUM and I noticed it at our church, scout pack, etc. Definitely unscientific but noticeably different from other years.

Did the seats at Eastern markedly increase from past years? Did the number of qualified students drastically decrease? Coincidences happen; using your personal observation to put others down is lousy. PP is correct - the metrics for entering students into the lottery are overly broad. I suspect the central review process isn’t as random as MCPS implies it is, but they use the cover of the lottery to identify kids they think will most benefit. At least some of them.

I don’t know the exact numbers, but there far, far more qualified students than there are spots in any of the criteria-based magnet programs. To hurl “sour grapes” at someone who acknowledges that truth is unkind and inaccurate.

Yes, an additional 50 seats were created. However, these didn’t go to affluent white and Asian students exclusively so DCUM feels it must be a sign that the program isn’t worth their while.

An increase of 50 isn’t what I would consider significant. The lottery criteria are also not that stringent, i.e., still far more qualified students than can be admitted.

Again: the vast majority of kids MCPS tells us could benefit from the level of enrichment offered at TPMS/EMS don’t have access to them. Calling that reality sour grapes just makes you look like a jerk.

You might not think it’s a big increase. The reality is they had trouble filing the seats this past year. Many people turned it down due to commute, friendships or it not being a good fit for their kids. Under the lottery system the kids that take up the seats are those very much in need of advanced programming, whose needs won’t be met at their local schools and/or who live close and don’t mind leaving their friends behind.

There are 160K students in MCPS, of whom approximately 25% are in middle school. Let’s call it 22%, for the sake of argument, and consider that half of those kids are inbounds for TPMS/EMS. So, 11% of MCPS kids, which is ~17,600. The criteria for being entered into the lottery is (locally-normed) 85th percentile performance on MAP-R (Eastern) or MAP-M (TP), plus As in relevant subjects. Let’s say that combination of requirements results in 10% of kids being eligible.

Ten percent of 17,600 is 1,760. Eastern had 150 seats? That’s less than 10% of eligible kids - and that’s with my consistently assuming a smaller lottery pool at various steps. Even if we’re generous and consider that both magnets combined are available to 20% of eligible kids, that means there is not room for 80% of eligible kids. Eighty percent.

If my math is outrageously wrong, please, FFS, correct me. Because the assertion that “almost everyone” in the pool for Eastern was offered a spot sounds, literally, incredible. Even if some people turned it down. Still: not credible.

Your math is seriously wrong. 1) there are about 10,500 rising sixth graders in recent years. I guess about half are eligible for TPMS/Eastern? So that’s about 5,250. 15 percent of 5,250 is a little under 800 - however not all of the top 15 percent will have got all As. So maybe 700? That’s for each magnet, but obviously many kids will be in both pools - so the total number is not double that. Apparently there are 150 places now (or is it 125?) at Eastern. But what you missed is how many offers get extended and declined. Judging by the way I saw offers going through groups of people (eg, one friend declined, another friend got an offer the next day) it’s clear that many multiples of offers were made before anyone accepted them. When it got closer to the start of school it was even tougher to fill open spaces. So early in the year maybe they offer to 5 kids from the waitlist before they get an acceptance, but close to the start of school when multiple kids decide they don’t want to go after all it can take dozens of offers to fill a single space. Because many kids in the pool are saying no I don’t want the commute, or it isn’t for me or I want to stay with my friends at my home school. Hopefully this means that the ones who accept do so because it’s right for them.

Half are not eligible. 15 percent are.

Read it again. There are two sets of magnet middle schools. TPMS and Eastern are for half of the county (Clemente and another for the rest of the county). Only the kids in certain parts of the county ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE POOL (about half I believe?). And then the top 15 percent are actually in the pool. From which they make offers. Got it?