4 years of foreign language

[Anonymous]

My student would like to be done after honors 3 of their language as a sophomore. So 2 years in middle plus honors 2 and honors 3 in HS. No interest in AP. Received dual college credit. So is this 4 years in HS a non-issue for college admission since already has the college credit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4 years of language is generally taken to mean 4 years of the same language, because things naturally become more complex as the levels build on one another. Taking the first-year version of 4 different languages, for example, doesn't demonstrate the same kind of intellectual growth and development. That's why college language requirements require X number of semesters or years of the same language, too.

- College prof

This.

Not very hard, OP. The requirement is meant to show you have mastered one foreign language, not that you have had great fun taking French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do top tier colleges think about a kid who takes 12+ APs but drops language in both 11th and 12th grade because it doesn't interest them (and in order to take AP "electives" that the student clearly finds more interesting?)

I ask because DD is planning her schedule for 11th grade. She'll be taking AP Calc BC, AP English Lang/Comp, APUSH, and AP Bio. Plus the requried PE/Health and Orchestra as her elective. That leaves one more class, which is typically honors language (with AP language in 12th). But she'd much rather drop Spanish and take either AP Stats, AP Evironmental or AP CS Principles.

Thoughts?

Yes, colleges want to see four years of world languages plus AP and college courses if possible. that is clear. Actually college courses taken from Virginia community colleges or, as my kids did, as a non-degree student at GMU works well. You do NOT drop a foreign language in 11th and 12th grade because the institution to which you are applying want four years at the most rigorous level because that institution will ask for more years in the same language as a college student. Talk to your college counselor. This is one of the rare simple questions asked about college admissions. But students and their parents want to ignore this advice. YES! four years. Yes! same language! Yes, take real college courses during the summer or late afternoons while a high school student.. WHY you ask? because thos e same elite schools are (they think) training citizens of the world who whill need these languages in the super sophisticated business world to come

Which is funny because four years of high school language and four years of college language still doesn’t make people fluent.

This is DD’s point exactly. She’s a super practical kid and doesn’t see the point of going through the motions without becoming fluent. (My sense is immersion is the only way to get to fluency.) Plus she’s eager to try out some other interesting AP classes while in high school.

But she’s aiming for T-20 schools. Not sure about intended major yet, but it sounds like the keep-your-options-open answer is to continue with Spanish for at least 11th grade and possibly 12th. (Thankfully, Spanish doesn’t seem hard to her - just boring and pointless compared to other classes she could take instead.) Thanks everyone!

NP, and I think this is the wrong way to think about it. A humanities kid who takes AP Calc might not “master” calculus or even remember much of it in two years, but schools want to see kids who are willing to challenge themselves across subjects. That’s the reason to pursue foreign language to the highest level available—to demonstrate to schools that you sought rigor, even in subjects that might not be your strong suits. Fluency is not the point.

Fair point.

[Anonymous]

What if you are in a dual language immersion program and can take the AP class or test in 9th or 10th grade. Ok to stop, or do they still want more language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep churning misinformation over and over again on this topic? Check the college website for what they need and meet that requirement. There are enough posts even on this thread about kids with less than 4 years,and/or no AP in language getting into Top colleges. So, no. You don't need 4 years of language or AP to get into one of those schools.

on the other had, UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years, pref to AP level of the same language (and why my own kid didn't apply)

PP here.. Well, my kid had 3 years of language (1MS and 2 HS) and got into UVA as well as a few better ranked schools.. STEM though. Can you link to "UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep churning misinformation over and over again on this topic? Check the college website for what they need and meet that requirement. There are enough posts even on this thread about kids with less than 4 years,and/or no AP in language getting into Top colleges. So, no. You don't need 4 years of language or AP to get into one of those schools.

on the other had, UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years, pref to AP level of the same language (and why my own kid didn't apply)

PP here.. Well, my kid had 3 years of language (1MS and 2 HS) and got into UVA as well as a few better ranked schools.. STEM though. Can you link to "UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years"?

This has been discussed here before.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1105135.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if you are in a dual language immersion program and can take the AP class or test in 9th or 10th grade. Ok to stop, or do they still want more language?

My DC was in this situation- had two years of HS credit for French and two years of HS credit for another language in middle school, then took AP French in 9th grade. The HS did not offer anything beyond this level, and even with all that HS credit, guidance counselor still suggested that DC take another language after 9th grade. She said that colleges look for foreign language taken in HS, not MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My student would like to be done after honors 3 of their language as a sophomore. So 2 years in middle plus honors 2 and honors 3 in HS. No interest in AP. Received dual college credit. So is this 4 years in HS a non-issue for college admission since already has the college credit?

Thanks for the link with the older thread. Still, I couldn’t see an answer to whether more language is necessary when 2 years of dual college credit will have been earned (see my previous inquiry above).

At least at this point, my student hopes to be done with language requirement for HS and college after wrapping dual-credit honors 3 this year as a sophomore (and honors 2 as a hs freshman). Will this not be sufficient?

My university only required 2 years of college language credit (and really only then for college of liberal arts students).

Thanks!!

[Anonymous]

To clarify, with these 2 years of dual credit earned, my kid will have already satisfied my university’s language credit for B.A. degree-seekers. So why push for more in HS?

[Anonymous]

My 8th grader is in Spanish 3 and is bilingual/bicultural in French, without having taken a public school French class. Can she take Spanish 4 in 9th, then AP Spanish in 10th grade, and separately take the AP French exam at some point? But nothing beyond that? Or does she need to take the AP Spanish Lit in 11th grade too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
on the other had, UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years, pref to AP level of the same language (and why my own kid didn't apply)

PP here.. Well, my kid had 3 years of language (1MS and 2 HS) and got into UVA as well as a few better ranked schools.. STEM though. Can you link to "UVA is pretty clear that they want 4 years"?

Does “UVa STEM” mean the Engineering School xor does it mean A&S (e.g., Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Math) ?

Those 2 schools within UVa have different admissions requirements, separate applicant pools, and separate decision criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS did not take language after 10th grade, which he took Spanish AP.

Into an Ivy, class of HS '22

My kids also took their AP exams (French) in 10th grade, and that fulfilled their college foreign language requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My 8th grader is in Spanish 3 and is bilingual/bicultural in French, without having taken a public school French class. Can she take Spanish 4 in 9th, then AP Spanish in 10th grade, and separately take the AP French exam at some point? But nothing beyond that? Or does she need to take the AP Spanish Lit in 11th grade too.

You can pay to take an AP exam. My kid did AP World History after World History Honors. You might want to get some tutoring though, because the structure of the AP French exam is quite particular so your daughter would want to know the formula they are seeking in answers. I know some kids who didn't get a 5 in AP French despite 12 years of French immersion because they weren't taught to the test.

Also, I took French at university and some of the mother tongue students in the class had terrible grammar. The professor told them that they sounded great but their written grammar was terrible. They didn't know when to use aller, allez, allais, allaient, allait, allé, allée, allés or allées for example.

French kids who speak French but haven't taken French classes are like 4 year old English speaking kids - they speak and understand English but can't read or write it properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS did not take language after 10th grade, which he took Spanish AP.

Into an Ivy, class of HS '22

My kids also took their AP exams (French) in 10th grade, and that fulfilled their college foreign language requirement.

Further, they both also got into UVA, although they didn't go. When we toured Cornell, they said student had to take a language there, even if they passed the AP or had a foreign language mother tongue. Different universities have different rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My 8th grader is in Spanish 3 and is bilingual/bicultural in French, without having taken a public school French class. Can she take Spanish 4 in 9th, then AP Spanish in 10th grade, and separately take the AP French exam at some point? But nothing beyond that? Or does she need to take the AP Spanish Lit in 11th grade too.

You can pay to take an AP exam. My kid did AP World History after World History Honors. You might want to get some tutoring though, because the structure of the AP French exam is quite particular so your daughter would want to know the formula they are seeking in answers. I know some kids who didn't get a 5 in AP French despite 12 years of French immersion because they weren't taught to the test.

Also, I took French at university and some of the mother tongue students in the class had terrible grammar. The professor told them that they sounded great but their written grammar was terrible. They didn't know when to use aller, allez, allais, allaient, allait, allé, allée, allés or allées for example.

French kids who speak French but haven't taken French classes are like 4 year old English speaking kids - they speak and understand English but can't read or write it properly.

Thank you, yes, she goes to weekend French class specifically for writing and grammar, because that’s such an important part of French. I entirely agree with you!

Do you know if she would need to pursue Spanish beyond the first AP, though?