COVID Lockdowns Were a Giant Experiment. It Was a Failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

It was in DC. But sure, continue to lie all you want. It’s all you have now.

[Anonymous]

A lotttt fewer preexisting conditions in Sweden’s population

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

Because it was an EMERGENCY situation.
Having known several people who died or spent months in the hospital with Covid it was not something most of us wanted to just take our chances with.

Questions and dissent are most important during an emergency. No you don’t get to memory hole this.

What do you think should happen today? Are you advocating for anything in particular?

I think laws should be passed that require schools to remain open. Public health authories should be sent to school to understand risks and benefits. Strong protection of 1A rights in the pending Supreme Court case. Fixing the learning loss is going to be a long term project but the new understanding of the importance of phonics is a great step. We need to do the same for math.

Can you help me understand what the law would look like? A law that says schools need to remain open when? You would do away with any type of public health emergency justification for any government action regarding public education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

What are you talking about? There were plenty of people who questioned everything and did whatever they wanted anyway. It’s not like the police came and arrested people for expressing dissenting views. Even in early covid when people were dying, plenty of people questioned why they had to be inconvenienced to save other people’s lives and behaved accordingly. Lockdowns were never going to work in this country because we are a narcissistic and selfish society who rarely behave for the greater good of community.

Oh so you think we should have been more like China with peoples doors nailed shut?

Dissent was absolutely impossible on a social level and as we know from the social media 1A case pending at the Supreme Court, the government was extremely closely involved in getting viewpoints on covid deleted from social media. Even if that case finds there was no 1A violation, it absolutely shows that the government acted to literally delete opposing views.

Where in my post did I say anything remotely close to nailing people’s doors shut. I said people could have dissenting views here and they did. I also have no idea what the government did on social media. I personally saw plenty of dissent that wasn’t deleted.

I had mild covid, a sore throat, and it was deleted every single time if I mentioned it as my own experience. This was not allowed to be discussed at all, here.

Interesting. When was that?

Well, I had it in June 2021 so anytime after that. I'd point you to the posts, but alas, deleted.

Ah, so right during the first wave of vaccinations when we were just learning that, contrary to the official statements, the vaccines were not 95% efficacious and did not prevent transmission. That tracks.

True, I was vaccinated in March 2021 as were many others. At the time people were saying "Vaccinated! Covid is over for me!" But by summer it was more like "not so fast...." with that summer surge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with this example is that Sweden is a small, culturally homogenous, fairly wealthy country in a northern climate. Would the same approach have the same outcome in the US? Probably not.

Like questions I'd want answered include:

- Did high conscientiousness among Swedish people result in voluntary social distancing during Covid peaks even without lockdowns?

- Did the climate in Sweden, with just a short summer season, allow Sweden to avoid the worst of the pandemic because people there socialize less outside their families in cold months anyway?

- Did Sweden's strong social safety net play a role?

I do tend to think that hard, very restrictive lockdowns likely have less of an effect on death rates than we think, and also that prolonged lockdowns have real costs that we are still reluctant to acknowledge in many cases.

I agree with all of this.

And I refuse to be angry. I wish we could study the effects of the lockdowns, be objective, and learn some lessons, but that's not where we are as a people. I think we are doing more damage to ourselves by being angry over something we can't change now. It's not productive. If there was any area where we should have admitted failure it was with schools. I would like to have seen something structural done to address learning loss.

This is a really great post! We should absolutely study the response objectively and learn some lessons for other crisis situations. I also agree the loss of learning is basically being ignored years later and many students are still struggling.

[Anonymous]

I think the toll it took on health workers is still apparent today. Even if all the lockdowns did was try to make the hospital loads more manageable that was important. I think we mostly did the best we could with limited information and experience. Probably we would do some things differently (esp wrt schools) but all in all our country has fared much better than ones like China. Stories like that don’t sell as well though, hence the doom and gloom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

DP, I don't know about April 2020, but our local playground had yellow tape around it put there by the county until the neighbors got fed up and tore it down - in late fall 2021. Long, long after it was known that covid does not spread outdoors except for exceptional circumstances. And it wasn't the only one. Yes, there was extreme and overblown caution in some respects. I remember posts on DCUM about whether it's ok to pass someone walking on a trail outside without a mask. I remember getting screamed at by some little old lady because I was 4 feet away from her on an outdoor trail, unmasked. In winter 2020.

I didn't object to the school closures or the social distancing. I do think, however, that at some point after we had a lot more knowledge - call it September 2020 - decisions were made that were fear-based and not evidence-based. Pretending otherwise now is not honest or helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

Because it was an EMERGENCY situation.
Having known several people who died or spent months in the hospital with Covid it was not something most of us wanted to just take our chances with.

Questions and dissent are most important during an emergency. No you don’t get to memory hole this.

What do you think should happen today? Are you advocating for anything in particular?

I think laws should be passed that require schools to remain open. Public health authories should be sent to school to understand risks and benefits. Strong protection of 1A rights in the pending Supreme Court case. Fixing the learning loss is going to be a long term project but the new understanding of the importance of phonics is a great step. We need to do the same for math.

Can you help me understand what the law would look like? A law that says schools need to remain open when? You would do away with any type of public health emergency justification for any government action regarding public education?

Yes, the public health officials and elected officials have demonstrated that their emergency powers are too broad and need to be limited.

The decision to close schools would require a specific set of criteria and would mandate frequent re-evaluation. Contracts with teachers unions would have to include swifter penalties for strikes, possibly criminal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

DP, I don't know about April 2020, but our local playground had yellow tape around it put there by the county until the neighbors got fed up and tore it down - in late fall 2021. Long, long after it was known that covid does not spread outdoors except for exceptional circumstances. And it wasn't the only one. Yes, there was extreme and overblown caution in some respects. I remember posts on DCUM about whether it's ok to pass someone walking on a trail outside without a mask. I remember getting screamed at by some little old lady because I was 4 feet away from her on an outdoor trail, unmasked. In winter 2020.

I didn't object to the school closures or the social distancing. I do think, however, that at some point after we had a lot more knowledge - call it September 2020 - decisions were made that were fear-based and not evidence-based. Pretending otherwise now is not honest or helpful.

Correcting my post - late fall 2020, not 2021. (I do have colleagues who refused to let their kids play outside with others as late as fall 2021, but that's a different post!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

DP, I don't know about April 2020, but our local playground had yellow tape around it put there by the county until the neighbors got fed up and tore it down - in late fall 2021. Long, long after it was known that covid does not spread outdoors except for exceptional circumstances. And it wasn't the only one. Yes, there was extreme and overblown caution in some respects. I remember posts on DCUM about whether it's ok to pass someone walking on a trail outside without a mask. I remember getting screamed at by some little old lady because I was 4 feet away from her on an outdoor trail, unmasked. In winter 2020.

I didn't object to the school closures or the social distancing. I do think, however, that at some point after we had a lot more knowledge - call it September 2020 - decisions were made that were fear-based and not evidence-based. Pretending otherwise now is not honest or helpful.

yes. summer 2020 was the *political* inflection point where it was decided that Democrats should use “keep schools closed!” as part of their electoral strategy. Should go down in history as one of the worse Democratic mistakes.

[Anonymous]

I for one am glad none of my loved ones was an “excess death”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this is about you being in a snit fit over school closings?

Newsflash: Teachers were not going to return to the classroom because they were the exact demographic Covid was killing.

Over age 80 with multiple comorbidities?

[Anonymous]

It was obvious very early on it mainly affected the elderly. We had the data from the cruise ships.

I mostly ignored the precautions to the extent possible. Did a lot of travel, socialized with friends who would socialize and rented a house in another state where my kids could play with other kids. It was a great time for our family but not for others.

I do feel bad for many friends who gave up their lives and lived like hermits. I can tell it affected their kids a lot. Early on I remember thinking we’d all catch Covid eventually and what’s the point of all of this?

If there’s ever a real pandemic that’s deadly the government won’t even need to impose restrictions. People will stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

DP, I don't know about April 2020, but our local playground had yellow tape around it put there by the county until the neighbors got fed up and tore it down - in late fall 2021. Long, long after it was known that covid does not spread outdoors except for exceptional circumstances. And it wasn't the only one. Yes, there was extreme and overblown caution in some respects. I remember posts on DCUM about whether it's ok to pass someone walking on a trail outside without a mask. I remember getting screamed at by some little old lady because I was 4 feet away from her on an outdoor trail, unmasked. In winter 2020.

I didn't object to the school closures or the social distancing. I do think, however, that at some point after we had a lot more knowledge - call it September 2020 - decisions were made that were fear-based and not evidence-based. Pretending otherwise now is not honest or helpful.

It was pretty much all fear based. Once you figured this out, it was impossible to ignore. Unfortunately, most people aren’t that bright and they are easily swayed by the media. Why did we have death counters and case counters on the news, but only for Covid? Millions of Americans die from all sorts of things but no one has ever seemed to care.

I wish our country had spend Covid money fighting obesity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was obvious very early on it mainly affected the elderly. We had the data from the cruise ships.

I mostly ignored the precautions to the extent possible. Did a lot of travel, socialized with friends who would socialize and rented a house in another state where my kids could play with other kids. It was a great time for our family but not for others.

I do feel bad for many friends who gave up their lives and lived like hermits. I can tell it affected their kids a lot. Early on I remember thinking we’d all catch Covid eventually and what’s the point of all of this?

If there’s ever a real pandemic that’s deadly the government won’t even need to impose restrictions. People will stay home.

+1. Lockdowns were imposed by the government because people weren’t scared enough of a virus that likely wouldn’t hurt them to voluntarily stay home.