Elite Colleges Seem Like A Rat Race to Nowhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Why is anyone surprised? These schools are filled to the brim with little Tracy Flicks. That’s how they got into those schools in the first place.

Damn now I’m going to have to hunt down Election on whatever streaming service has it.

Tracy Flick is iconic. And who knew how predictive it would be of the current T20 student population! Truly ahead of its time.

Not really. DD recently graduated from an Ivy, and I wouldn't describe her or most of her friends to be "Tracy Flick-esque."

They are unusual exceptions, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, W&M, BC, Wake Forest, to name a few.

Ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, W&M, BC, Wake Forest, to name a few.

At our BC tour, the students mentioned “applying” for clubs and that it was competitive. I was really surprised.

[Anonymous]

It’s ok for some clubs to require applications and be competitive but it’s good for schools to also have lots of groups and clubs that you can join without competition. I remember touring one campus a few years ago, just doing a self guided tour due to Covid, and even then it was clear just looking at the signs around campus that this was one of those schools were you have to apply for nearly every activity and club. I was really turned off and surprised to see that and happy my child didn’t get in there..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

Why wait until college? At my DD's highly-selective kindergarten, only the top three kids in each class are invited to join the fingerpainting club. DD cried when she did not get in (she was #4, but only because we have focused more on oils and watercolors in her training), but we just told her to suck it up and either start performing or get used to never being truly successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article (paywall) but is Georgetown mentioned? They're very selective with the Corp and GUFCU, even more so than a generation ago.

What are the clubs? Acronyms don’t mean much for those of us not affiliated with Georgetown. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, W&M, BC, Wake Forest, to name a few.

At our BC tour, the students mentioned “applying” for clubs and that it was competitive. I was really surprised.

BC clubs are the basis for a lot of their social life since there are no sororities or fraternities. Club admission is competitive and a lot of your social standing has to do with your club affiliation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article (paywall) but is Georgetown mentioned? They're very selective with the Corp and GUFCU, even more so than a generation ago.

What are the clubs? Acronyms don’t mean much for those of us not affiliated with Georgetown. Thanks!

Georgetown University Federal Credit Union

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

Yes, that what my boss keeps telling me. She's from Wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

Totally shocked by the responses here. Everyone knows if your kid doesn’t get into the right preschool they have no shot at a meaningful existence.

Why wouldn’t college clubs be competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article (paywall) but is Georgetown mentioned? They're very selective with the Corp and GUFCU, even more so than a generation ago.

What are the clubs? Acronyms don’t mean much for those of us not affiliated with Georgetown. Thanks!

Georgetown University Federal Credit Union

Doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/yale-college-undergrad-clubs-competitive/675219/

Competitive clubs? Disgusting. Seems like the elitism and relentless competition doesn't end once you get into an Ivy.

Am I ever glad that I went to a SLAC that prided itself on inclusiveness and being pretty laid-back.

Simply do not partake, OP. Done and done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

Yes, that what my boss keeps telling me. She's from Wesleyan.

Hehehe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the exception of a few elite schools like Princeton and MIT that still give actual grades it is the only place where students compete.

Everybody gets As and A-s, so the average GPA for the school is a 3.8 and it becomes the future employers job to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Many T25 schools give real grades. Go look at FB/Reddit/CC for northwestern---the first 2 years of chem are brutal, along with the general engineering sequence. Former 4.0UW/12+ AP kids are struggling to get B's. It's the same at many elite schools.

Northwestern is a little behind the curve but most likely over 3.6 by now https://www.gradeinflation.com/Northwestern.html

Not in engineering/STEM/Premed....those scores might be raised by theater/music/general LA majors, but certainly not the others. Kids with 4.0UW in HS struggle to get B's in freshman chem and the general eng sequence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s ok for some clubs to require applications and be competitive but it’s good for schools to also have lots of groups and clubs that you can join without competition. I remember touring one campus a few years ago, just doing a self guided tour due to Covid, and even then it was clear just looking at the signs around campus that this was one of those schools were you have to apply for nearly every activity and club. I was really turned off and surprised to see that and happy my child didn’t get in there..

Yes, it's fine to have maybe 20-25% of clubs that are competitive/require applications. But IMO the remainder should be available to anyone who wants to put in the work. It's like that at my kid's school---there are a few that are very competitive, but it's less than 20%. The rest anyone can join if they just sign up and put in the required hours/commitments. With this, my kid is more active in activities I never thought they would be....it's really a good thing for most kids.