Elite Colleges Seem Like A Rat Race to Nowhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Why is anyone surprised? These schools are filled to the brim with little Tracy Flicks. That’s how they got into those schools in the first place.

Damn now I’m going to have to hunt down Election on whatever streaming service has it.

Tracy Flick is iconic. And who knew how predictive it would be of the current T20 student population! Truly ahead of its time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Why is anyone surprised? These schools are filled to the brim with little Tracy Flicks. That’s how they got into those schools in the first place.

Damn now I’m going to have to hunt down Election on whatever streaming service has it.

Tracy Flick is iconic. And who knew how predictive it would be of the current T20 student population! Truly ahead of its time.

Not really. DD recently graduated from an Ivy, and I wouldn't describe her or most of her friends to be "Tracy Flick-esque."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the exception of a few elite schools like Princeton and MIT that still give actual grades it is the only place where students compete.

Everybody gets As and A-s, so the average GPA for the school is a 3.8 and it becomes the future employers job to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Genuine question: Elite schools take students with excellent track records of doing well in school. If “Everybody gets As and A-s” by meeting the — presumably high — standards set by the professors, why is that an issue for you? Does someone have to fail for you to value the relative “success”?

At least at the elite school that I attended, I was able to take graduate level seminars — a potentially risky move, if my focus had been solely on my gpa. Would you have been more impressed by better grades — say: a 3.9 — if I had decided instead to take easier courses, with easier course requirements, in an easier major?

The standards aren't high. Grades have been inflated since the Vietnam War.

If a Harvard A is the same as a State College A, the Harvard education has no more educational value than State College. Harvard students, if they are extra talented, should be earning better than State College A.

And you’re backing this up with actual data, right?

A bit dated and the trend has only continued upward https://www.gradeinflation.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to Cornell. Some clubs are not competitive—anyone can join. There are some clubs you have to apply to and interview. Some of those are engineering project teams.

My son joined non competitive clubs. Then later tried some that he had to interview for. He was not accepted into one club. Then he was accepted in a project team. It was all fine. He didn’t take it personally. Some kids don’t join any clubs and do very well.

It was no harder than getting cut from the soccer team in high school!

Unrelated to this topic but.. Is your son an engineering major? Which particular major?
Does he feel like the kids are generally collaborative and study together etc?
Mine is applying there for engineering. Thanks!!

He is not an engineering major, but he is on a project team with mostly engineers. The project team has been fun for him. The team works on a project for an annual competition with other schools. The project team is also very social and gets together regularly for team dinners. So, his experience has collaborative. But, I can’t speak to the experience of engineering majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the exception of a few elite schools like Princeton and MIT that still give actual grades it is the only place where students compete.

Everybody gets As and A-s, so the average GPA for the school is a 3.8 and it becomes the future employers job to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Many T25 schools give real grades. Go look at FB/Reddit/CC for northwestern---the first 2 years of chem are brutal, along with the general engineering sequence. Former 4.0UW/12+ AP kids are struggling to get B's. It's the same at many elite schools.

Northwestern is a little behind the curve but most likely over 3.6 by now https://www.gradeinflation.com/Northwestern.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

[Anonymous]

Parent of high stats kid that got WL or rejected from these schools. Thriving at state school and grateful they are not part of his kind of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

DD goes to Macalester, not like this at all, but she has friends at UVA (was rejected) and clubs are competitive. Her best friend says she doesn’t have the opportunity to try new things because you’re expected to either be good in an activity already or it has competitive admissions. DD said only thing competitive at Mac is acapella.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD goes to Macalester, not like this at all, but she has friends at UVA (was rejected) and clubs are competitive. Her best friend says she doesn’t have the opportunity to try new things because you’re expected to either be good in an activity already or it has competitive admissions. DD said only thing competitive at Mac is acapella.

UVA is not elite but people on here like it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD goes to Macalester, not like this at all, but she has friends at UVA (was rejected) and clubs are competitive. Her best friend says she doesn’t have the opportunity to try new things because you’re expected to either be good in an activity already or it has competitive admissions. DD said only thing competitive at Mac is acapella.

UVA is not elite but people on here like it

Can’t tell if you’re a troll? It’s a hard admit from our area. DD has brought this up as a reason why she didn’t get in. I’m sure at schools like Yale, this phenomenon is even more pronounced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to Cornell. Some clubs are not competitive—anyone can join. There are some clubs you have to apply to and interview. Some of those are engineering project teams.

My son joined non competitive clubs. Then later tried some that he had to interview for. He was not accepted into one club. Then he was accepted in a project team. It was all fine. He didn’t take it personally. Some kids don’t join any clubs and do very well.

It was no harder than getting cut from the soccer team in high school!

Unrelated to this topic but.. Is your son an engineering major? Which particular major?
Does he feel like the kids are generally collaborative and study together etc?
Mine is applying there for engineering. Thanks!!

He is not an engineering major, but he is on a project team with mostly engineers. The project team has been fun for him. The team works on a project for an annual competition with other schools. The project team is also very social and gets together regularly for team dinners. So, his experience has collaborative. But, I can’t speak to the experience of engineering majors.

Thank you.
My child is very interested in the project teams- that’s good to know that it’s not only engineering majors.
Sounds like your son is enjoying it overall though. Great to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

I really don’t think getting squeezed out of the Finance Club merely because there aren’t enough spots is a beneficial learning experience, nor is it helpful for career purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of high stats kid that got WL or rejected from these schools. Thriving at state school and grateful they are not part of his kind of nonsense.

State schools aren’t immune from this either! It said in the article that UCLA and UC Berkeley are part of this as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

Life is difficult, but it's only a competitive grind for those who choose that path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tend to agree. Went to one of these elite schools and now DS is at a laid back SLAC. Certainly would have gone to one of them if it were possible (who turns that down?) but I think he’s better off psychologically and otherwise. It’s like ten thousand type AAA people driving each other crazy.

While it stung at the time, not getting into the ivies I applied to was a blessing in disguise. I wound up at a school just a step below that craziness and I had an amazing time-great education but not as cutthroat.

That's what I see currently. My kid is at a school just below, where most kids applied to several T25 schools and many were waitlisted or spring start or transfer fall of sophomore year offers at at least one. The school is much less cut throat, the kids are happy, work hard and genuinely like to learn--at end of freshman year two of my kids friends were seriously discussing what books they planned to read over the summer during some down time (and they were challenging, thought provoking books). IMO, my kid is in a better place for them than if they'd made it into their T10 choice or the T25 WL choice.

High school kids need to know this so they can stop freaking out about 'needing' to get into an elite college.

No, you're totally wrong. High schoolers don't "need to know" anything except for the fact that the world is a cold, competitive place. I'd much rather have my kids go to a competitive "sink or swim" school like Columbia or UC Berkeley or UCLA so they get used to self-advocacy and develop grit and resilience after rejection and failure. Sending them to some coddling SLAC like Wesleyan where students spend their freshmen summer reading obscure literature for fun when they really should be doing a tech/finance internship or getting research experience for grad school does them no favors.

Life is a difficult, competitive grind. College is a great place to learn this.

Hi Ivy mom. You are still nuts!