ELC for everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bannockburn, Wood Acres, Carderock and Bradley Hills are also doing ELC for all in 4th grade. Think it is was a wise choice- up the bar for everyone and provide some supports for kids who need it. Not sure why people are unhappy about this.

I doubt anyone is unhappy with it. Every student deserves a good education and benchmark wasn’t it. I am happy they are implementing ELC for all, that’s how it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like our school has all 4th graders taking ELC this year. Anyone else?

So glad they're raising expectations for everyone and demanding a higher standard from all students!

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bannockburn, Wood Acres, Carderock and Bradley Hills are also doing ELC for all in 4th grade. Think it is was a wise choice- up the bar for everyone and provide some supports for kids who need it. Not sure why people are unhappy about this.

I doubt anyone is unhappy with it. Every student deserves a good education and benchmark wasn’t it. I am happy they are implementing ELC for all, that’s how it should be.

If everyone didn’t qualify for it or need it I would certainly be unhappy about it. Glad this is not occurring at our school. Even the students know that not everyone should be part of the program. Every student deserves a good education but that doesn’t mean that every program or tool is good for every student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bannockburn, Wood Acres, Carderock and Bradley Hills are also doing ELC for all in 4th grade. Think it is was a wise choice- up the bar for everyone and provide some supports for kids who need it. Not sure why people are unhappy about this.

I doubt anyone is unhappy with it. Every student deserves a good education and benchmark wasn’t it. I am happy they are implementing ELC for all, that’s how it should be.

If everyone didn’t qualify for it or need it I would certainly be unhappy about it. Glad this is not occurring at our school. Even the students know that not everyone should be part of the program. Every student deserves a good education but that doesn’t mean that every program or tool is good for every student.

Our MS has advanced English for everyone these days but what this really means is nobody reads books these days. In fact, the 4th grade CES did far more than the 8th grade Advanced English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's possible the ELC for all schools are at schools where most of the students qualified for the CES lottery? I hope that's true.

There are no such schools. It's only the top 15%. For most to qualify, it would be top 50%.

Top 15% of who? Just that school or of the county. The school seems silly. One schools top 15% could be vastly different than another.

They group schools by SES level (percentage of students receiving FARMs) and then take the top 15 percent of students from those groups and put them in a lottery for CES. Anyone who isn't in CES is guaranteed ELC at their home school. But there are also kids who were not in the CES lottery who are offered ELC, particularly in low-FARMs school where the lottery cutoff is very high (above 85th percentile nationally). So there are indeed schools where most students demonstrate a need for enrichment, even if most students are not in the CES lottery.

DP. Just to give an example, my DC scored 93% in winter map-r, but located at a tier 2 school. From what I read, I believe that DC's score was deducted 12 percentage points (for being in a tier 2 school), so that became 81st percentile. Did not enter lottery and was not offered an ELC spot at local school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's possible the ELC for all schools are at schools where most of the students qualified for the CES lottery? I hope that's true.

There are no such schools. It's only the top 15%. For most to qualify, it would be top 50%.

Top 15% of who? Just that school or of the county. The school seems silly. One schools top 15% could be vastly different than another.

They group schools by SES level (percentage of students receiving FARMs) and then take the top 15 percent of students from those groups and put them in a lottery for CES. Anyone who isn't in CES is guaranteed ELC at their home school. But there are also kids who were not in the CES lottery who are offered ELC, particularly in low-FARMs school where the lottery cutoff is very high (above 85th percentile nationally). So there are indeed schools where most students demonstrate a need for enrichment, even if most students are not in the CES lottery.

DP. Just to give an example, my DC scored 93% in winter map-r, but located at a tier 2 school. From what I read, I believe that DC's score was deducted 12 percentage points (for being in a tier 2 school), so that became 81st percentile. Did not enter lottery and was not offered an ELC spot at local school.

Which is why I don’t think MAP tests are a good measure of student ability. It is very random and just one data point. A perfectly capable student could have a bad day and bomb his test and not qualify for ELC or CES.
My DC was entered into CES lottery based on his fall score back when we were online for almost a year. On his spring MAP, his score dropped. I wonder what his score would have been in winter but they never tested him. But he ended up getting the CES spot and did fine in the program. So i think a lot of kids who do not have that cut off score can still do well in ELC or even at CES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like our school has all 4th graders taking ELC this year. Anyone else?

So glad they're raising expectations for everyone and demanding a higher standard from all students!

+1000

Except that usually means lowering the standard to be sure the teaching is accessible to everyone. Teachers are pretty required to pass the kids so they have to find a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like our school has all 4th graders taking ELC this year. Anyone else?

So glad they're raising expectations for everyone and demanding a higher standard from all students!

+1000

Except that usually means lowering the standard to be sure the teaching is accessible to everyone. Teachers are pretty required to pass the kids so they have to find a way.

+1000 Unfortunately at MCPS, “advanced” for all, in practice, results in remedial for all, because the standards is lowered so that all can pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's possible the ELC for all schools are at schools where most of the students qualified for the CES lottery? I hope that's true.

There are no such schools. It's only the top 15%. For most to qualify, it would be top 50%.

Top 15% of who? Just that school or of the county. The school seems silly. One schools top 15% could be vastly different than another.

They group schools by SES level (percentage of students receiving FARMs) and then take the top 15 percent of students from those groups and put them in a lottery for CES. Anyone who isn't in CES is guaranteed ELC at their home school. But there are also kids who were not in the CES lottery who are offered ELC, particularly in low-FARMs school where the lottery cutoff is very high (above 85th percentile nationally). So there are indeed schools where most students demonstrate a need for enrichment, even if most students are not in the CES lottery.

Source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's possible the ELC for all schools are at schools where most of the students qualified for the CES lottery? I hope that's true.

There are no such schools. It's only the top 15%. For most to qualify, it would be top 50%.

Top 15% of who? Just that school or of the county. The school seems silly. One schools top 15% could be vastly different than another.

They group schools by SES level (percentage of students receiving FARMs) and then take the top 15 percent of students from those groups and put them in a lottery for CES. Anyone who isn't in CES is guaranteed ELC at their home school. But there are also kids who were not in the CES lottery who are offered ELC, particularly in low-FARMs school where the lottery cutoff is very high (above 85th percentile nationally). So there are indeed schools where most students demonstrate a need for enrichment, even if most students are not in the CES lottery.

DP. Just to give an example, my DC scored 93% in winter map-r, but located at a tier 2 school. From what I read, I believe that DC's score was deducted 12 percentage points (for being in a tier 2 school), so that became 81st percentile. Did not enter lottery and was not offered an ELC spot at local school.

This is literally so dumb. They should just use the straight scores and if an individual student receives FARMS, maybe adjust the cut off slightly. What advantage do they think a tier 1 school kid has over a tier 2 or 3 kid? One lives in a two million dollar home and the other only lives in a one million dollar home? The idea of local norming was to cast a wider net to bring in overlooked students who may have underperformed. It was never intended to gatekeep or exclude generally higher performers based on their zip code or parental income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like our school has all 4th graders taking ELC this year. Anyone else?

So glad they're raising expectations for everyone and demanding a higher standard from all students!

It's probably because MCPS failed to provide a replacement for Benchmark, even though they said they would.

I thought they replaced it with Really Great Reading.

No, RGR was added as a supplement because the phonics component of Benchmark was abysmal. But it's not a comprehensive ELA curriculum, and Benchmark is still abysmal in other ways.

[Anonymous]

What is the difference between elc and benchmark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like our school has all 4th graders taking ELC this year. Anyone else?

So glad they're raising expectations for everyone and demanding a higher standard from all students!

+1000

Except that usually means lowering the standard to be sure the teaching is accessible to everyone. Teachers are pretty required to pass the kids so they have to find a way.

+1000 Unfortunately at MCPS, “advanced” for all, in practice, results in remedial for all, because the standards is lowered so that all can pass.

Oh you must be at one of the bad schools then. Advanced for all is just that at ours. It's amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference between elc and benchmark?

Benchmark is absolutely awful for advanced learners (and not great for those at or above grade level). ELC is based on the CES curriculum and has readings 1-2 grades above reading level. It does not use Benchmark at all and if much more rigorous. It is only offered in 4th and 5th grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's possible the ELC for all schools are at schools where most of the students qualified for the CES lottery? I hope that's true.

There are no such schools. It's only the top 15%. For most to qualify, it would be top 50%.

Top 15% of who? Just that school or of the county. The school seems silly. One schools top 15% could be vastly different than another.

They group schools by SES level (percentage of students receiving FARMs) and then take the top 15 percent of students from those groups and put them in a lottery for CES. Anyone who isn't in CES is guaranteed ELC at their home school. But there are also kids who were not in the CES lottery who are offered ELC, particularly in low-FARMs school where the lottery cutoff is very high (above 85th percentile nationally). So there are indeed schools where most students demonstrate a need for enrichment, even if most students are not in the CES lottery.

Source?

The MCCPTA Gifted Ed Committee did an MPIA and got the info there. The documents are on the committee's facebook group.