Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

Private sector is demanding more and more days in office. Many top firms now want 3-4 days in the office a week. There are firms offering full-time virtual or more flexible hybrid schedules, but increasingly they are offering them to a segregated workforce. So partners and partner-track associates are in office more, but staff attorneys might be virtual. But there's a significant loss in pay associated with that.

Firms are increasingly worried about the impact on by culture and productivity of widespread WFH. Sure, it works in some legal specialties and for some people. But I am hearing more and more partners talking about issues with associates not even coming close to their billable targets, or just a general loss of camaraderie at the firm due to the combination of WFH and a very active lateral market.

All of which is to say, I think you are idealizing private practice because you are mad about having to go into the office. And the feds actually know that private industry is moving more and more back to the office, that's part of why this push is happening.

Do you know how much “top firms” pay their attorneys vs. the fed gov? A first year with no experience right out law school makes substantially more than I do as a capped 15-10, where I’ve sat for over ten years with no hope of any substantial raise. Ever. Unless they fix the cap. If I have to commute in anyway, it’s not going to be for a 15-10. My whole calculus changes.

Yes I am aware, and those attorneys work way more than you do. If you really think you are going to switch to private sector and get that massive pay bump but somehow magically get more flexibility and more, or even the same amount, of WFH, you are mistaken.

Switch to private sector for the money if you want. But there is a reason Big Law attorneys make eye-popping sums of money. And coming in as a lateral from DOJ will mean even higher expectations for you. Some associates come into Big Law and fart around for a few years collecting ridiculous salaries they don't earn before flaming out and heading elsewhere (some to places like the DOJ). But that's not going to fly for a mid-career lateral. You will be expected to come in and earn right away.

You also need to understand the law firm market right now. Huge pressure to grow both revenues and partner profits, tons of consolidation in the industry making even midsize firms that used to be more relaxed environments push profitability hard. There's also a very busy lateral market so you'll be competing against a lot of attorneys from other law firms, too. DOJ experience is a plus but it's not that uncommon and unless you are coming in with good client prospects (harder to do from DOJ), you may overestimate your value on that market.

1. Not at DOJ. You don’t even realize you are talking to different people.
2. Understand law firm market just fine thanks. Where do you think I was before gov? Where do you think my friends are (many of whom have also rotated in and out of gov just fine). Do you think I came to gov and just stopped networking? Also not looking for more wfh/flex. Point is if gov takes that away, I’m looking for $$$. Only reason I’ve stayed here the last 3-4 years is the wfh.
3. I’m in a hot regulatory specialty. Not worried about finding a taker.
4. You clearly underestimate how much some of us in gov actually work. Are there people who do nothing here. Yup. I’m not one of them. I like to work and am exceedingly frustrated often for that reason.
5. Even worst case scenario- as you say - I go and am canned after 2 years? I will have made conservatively speaking as much I as I will make in many more years in gov. I’m at a point where I have a good nest egg from my prior stint, a spouse with health insurance, etc. So I make bank for a while, and then take a break while collecting unemployment. I’m sure can find some make job as an adjunct or at a policy group when I get bored of my break. I’m really not seeing a downside.
6. Not to mention there’s also in house and trade associations — almost all of which in my field still pay more (!) than gov.

[Anonymous]

Yes I am aware, and those attorneys work way more than you do. If you really think you are going to switch to private sector and get that massive pay bump but somehow magically get more flexibility and more, or even the same amount, of WFH, you are mistaken.

No one said that - they said in light of losing flexibility anyway, being somewhere less flexible with more $ may be what they want. People cycle in and out of Government all the time. Also, I am not that person, but before going in- house, I was at a law firm, DOJ Nat Court and another law firm, and the hours were pretty comparable. I heard the hours are a little better now, but at the time, I had so many cases, people kept leaving and I kept getting reassigned their cases, and it was really rough.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to wait and see exactly what change is required. If it is a lot more days in the office, I will probably look for another Federal job a bit closer to home (my commute is an hour each way). I don't expect to find one immediately, but given that I am in contracting, it'll happen eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love WFH more than anyone, but there’s no question that RTO is much better for the local economy. Lunches, metro rides, parking fees, dry cleaners, etc.

Money that federal workers have to pay out of pocket now. When I worked in DC I brought my own lunch and used dry cleaners near my home. The only thing they will get money on is Metro fees and parking.

And that’s you. But objectively nobody can deny that more goods and services will get moved if people are in the office. Economies grow when money changed hands.

What makes you think WFH means people are not spending money? I spend the same money except in my neighborhood instead of downtown. I get my coffee at the independent coffeshop down the street instead of starbucks. I get last minute groceries at the corner store. I get my prescriptions at the local CVS. My spending has not changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the motivation? To increase productivity or just because so many office buildings are empty?

Nov 2024

Votes don’t know or care where DC workers are. This is about profits for donors

Fed is bigger than DC. Only small percentage in DC area

[Anonymous]

Biden lost my vote. Gonna skip 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

Private sector is demanding more and more days in office. Many top firms now want 3-4 days in the office a week. There are firms offering full-time virtual or more flexible hybrid schedules, but increasingly they are offering them to a segregated workforce. So partners and partner-track associates are in office more, but staff attorneys might be virtual. But there's a significant loss in pay associated with that.

Firms are increasingly worried about the impact on by culture and productivity of widespread WFH. Sure, it works in some legal specialties and for some people. But I am hearing more and more partners talking about issues with associates not even coming close to their billable targets, or just a general loss of camaraderie at the firm due to the combination of WFH and a very active lateral market.

All of which is to say, I think you are idealizing private practice because you are mad about having to go into the office. And the feds actually know that private industry is moving more and more back to the office, that's part of why this push is happening.

Do you know how much “top firms” pay their attorneys vs. the fed gov? A first year with no experience right out law school makes substantially more than I do as a capped 15-10, where I’ve sat for over ten years with no hope of any substantial raise. Ever. Unless they fix the cap. If I have to commute in anyway, it’s not going to be for a 15-10. My whole calculus changes.

Yes I am aware, and those attorneys work way more than you do. If you really think you are going to switch to private sector and get that massive pay bump but somehow magically get more flexibility and more, or even the same amount, of WFH, you are mistaken.

Switch to private sector for the money if you want. But there is a reason Big Law attorneys make eye-popping sums of money. And coming in as a lateral from DOJ will mean even higher expectations for you. Some associates come into Big Law and fart around for a few years collecting ridiculous salaries they don't earn before flaming out and heading elsewhere (some to places like the DOJ). But that's not going to fly for a mid-career lateral. You will be expected to come in and earn right away.

You also need to understand the law firm market right now. Huge pressure to grow both revenues and partner profits, tons of consolidation in the industry making even midsize firms that used to be more relaxed environments push profitability hard. There's also a very busy lateral market so you'll be competing against a lot of attorneys from other law firms, too. DOJ experience is a plus but it's not that uncommon and unless you are coming in with good client prospects (harder to do from DOJ), you may overestimate your value on that market.

1. Not at DOJ. You don’t even realize you are talking to different people.
2. Understand law firm market just fine thanks. Where do you think I was before gov? Where do you think my friends are (many of whom have also rotated in and out of gov just fine). Do you think I came to gov and just stopped networking? Also not looking for more wfh/flex. Point is if gov takes that away, I’m looking for $$$. Only reason I’ve stayed here the last 3-4 years is the wfh.
3. I’m in a hot regulatory specialty. Not worried about finding a taker.
4. You clearly underestimate how much some of us in gov actually work. Are there people who do nothing here. Yup. I’m not one of them. I like to work and am exceedingly frustrated often for that reason.
5. Even worst case scenario- as you say - I go and am canned after 2 years? I will have made conservatively speaking as much I as I will make in many more years in gov. I’m at a point where I have a good nest egg from my prior stint, a spouse with health insurance, etc. So I make bank for a while, and then take a break while collecting unemployment. I’m sure can find some make job as an adjunct or at a policy group when I get bored of my break. I’m really not seeing a downside.
6. Not to mention there’s also in house and trade associations — almost all of which in my field still pay more (!) than gov.

+1

And from better law schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden lost my vote. Gonna skip 2024.

LOL because of WFH? Who are you kidding?

Hint: Republicans not only want to send you back into the office, they also would like to cut your job, your benefits and possibly even kill your entire agency.

[Anonymous]

Well sounds like all these federal attorneys will have no trouble finding private sector jobs and everyone is good buying coffee near their house so I guess we'll just let central business districts die and it will have no negative impacts on anyone including the people who are crying about the idea of having to go into an office 3 days a week. Cool story, bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well sounds like all these federal attorneys will have no trouble finding private sector jobs and everyone is good buying coffee near their house so I guess we'll just let central business districts die and it will have no negative impacts on anyone including the people who are crying about the idea of having to go into an office 3 days a week. Cool story, bro.

Let me guess! You still write reports on a typewriter? Commute by horse and buggy?

It’s called times change so adapt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well sounds like all these federal attorneys will have no trouble finding private sector jobs and everyone is good buying coffee near their house so I guess we'll just let central business districts die and it will have no negative impacts on anyone including the people who are crying about the idea of having to go into an office 3 days a week. Cool story, bro.

You’re right, the smart feds will leave and the government will be left with the dregs, and even more vacancies. Vacancies won’t keep business districts alive. This will backfire

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well sounds like all these federal attorneys will have no trouble finding private sector jobs and everyone is good buying coffee near their house so I guess we'll just let central business districts die and it will have no negative impacts on anyone including the people who are crying about the idea of having to go into an office 3 days a week. Cool story, bro.

Yes let them die. They bet on something that made sense at the time but is now obsolete. Like Blockbuster video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden lost my vote. Gonna skip 2024.

Yea that makes sense. Trump is all about WFH. sigh.

[Anonymous]

How much time does Biden spend in the office working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love WFH more than anyone, but there’s no question that RTO is much better for the local economy. Lunches, metro rides, parking fees, dry cleaners, etc.

Money that federal workers have to pay out of pocket now. When I worked in DC I brought my own lunch and used dry cleaners near my home. The only thing they will get money on is Metro fees and parking.

And that’s you. But objectively nobody can deny that more goods and services will get moved if people are in the office. Economies grow when money changed hands.

Do you know what zero sum means?
Money is also changing hands in the current work from home arrangements.
Workers didn't just stop eating when they work from home.
They do save on gas costs (environment) and health cars cost (because of removal of unnecessary stress).

And we could care less about downtown offices no matter how much you bribe ....errrr pay Biden.
Turn it into multi unit housing you disingenuously say you care about.