"Fully fund" college... how much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has worked a long time in admissions for a top 10 grad program, I’ve learned that private undergrad gives no advantage to kids looking to go to grad school. Maybe it does for kids in certain fields who don’t plan on grad school, but otherwise it was a completely wasted expense.

I don’t think anyone thinks private gives you a leg up when it comes to grad school. Kids don’t attend private for that reason Lolol!

Then why do they do it? It’s not uncommon for kids to apply to our grad program with six figures of undergraduate debt from a private school when a state school would have gotten them to the same spot for half. If you are rich I guess it’s fine but these kids aren’t.

I’m on A2C and I’ve literally never seen a kid say they are going to private because they think it will help them with grad school. Kids who are going to top private schools are often laser focused students.

My son is going to Duke next month. Why? Because he visited the school and absolutely loved it and got in. He also got in Uchicago, but hates the campus and location. He’s planning on majoring in math. Grad school hasn’t even crossed his mind. He did not get into UVA, and graduated the top of his class. Go figure got into Duke, Uchicago, and Michigan, but not UVA.

No he will not graduate with debt.

You are rich and the cost difference is nothing to you. That doesn't mean its a greater value.

They did not say it was a "greater value".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has worked a long time in admissions for a top 10 grad program, I’ve learned that private undergrad gives no advantage to kids looking to go to grad school. Maybe it does for kids in certain fields who don’t plan on grad school, but otherwise it was a completely wasted expense.

I don’t think anyone thinks private gives you a leg up when it comes to grad school. Kids don’t attend private for that reason Lolol!

Then why do they do it? It’s not uncommon for kids to apply to our grad program with six figures of undergraduate debt from a private school when a state school would have gotten them to the same spot for half. If you are rich I guess it’s fine but these kids aren’t.

I’m on A2C and I’ve literally never seen a kid say they are going to private because they think it will help them with grad school. Kids who are going to top private schools are often laser focused students.

My son is going to Duke next month. Why? Because he visited the school and absolutely loved it and got in. He also got in Uchicago, but hates the campus and location. He’s planning on majoring in math. Grad school hasn’t even crossed his mind. He did not get into UVA, and graduated the top of his class. Go figure got into Duke, Uchicago, and Michigan, but not UVA.

No he will not graduate with debt.

You are rich and the cost difference is nothing to you. That doesn't mean its a greater value.

I am a Duke grad. The education was excellent. I paid for it entirely on my own via athletic scholarship. My poor single mother was not a student but wanted me to aim high. Not sure I liked the school socially - but the academics were excellent - all that really matters. Not sure what is communicated to students today. My honors adviser repeatedly informed me that learning is all about sustaining ego damage - no quest for safe spaces. No safe spaces in athletics either and found an adjustment in the world was not as ruthless as my athletic life. I can see why your son wants to go to Duke. I used to think while riding the East West campus bus that I was the luckiest guy in the world despite coming from poverty. Of all of the top universities in the country, Duke has at the same time the most remarkable and troubling history. Washington Duke was a prisoner of war and walked home to Durham so as not to spend the 5 dollar coin Lincoln have to POW’s. That coin started the tobacco business. Stanford certainly was notorious in his financing of the Central Pacific, but the Dukes have a remarkable and imperfect history.

I paid for two Princeton educations for my two kids. About 70 percent saved - the other 30 percent out of operating funds, including cars for them, travel and clothes. They worked for their own money and held up their end of the bargain. Contrary to the statement above, we are not rich but reasonably well off. I have been investing since age 22, and just don’t like debt and leading a modest life gave us a lot of freedom in terms of college. Buying only a house we could afford with a 15 year mortgage - no fancy cars - these things make a huge difference. I disagree with Dave Ramsey on a majority of topics, including his religious bent, but one thing he is right about is to avoid debt. Not everyone can do it but not having any debt for 15 years just gives me an entirely different outlook on life. By the way not sure Princeton was a good value but wanted to pay it forward after being the first to go to college and kept a long term promise to the kids that they could go wherever they wanted. This mattered to me greatly. Retirement is in decent shape but want more before I retire - although could do so now.

To the Duke grad: I don’t think you can say you paid for college “entirely only [your] own with athletics scholarships.” Sure, being a college athlete is work, but if school was covered by scholarships, the words “paid” and “entirely on [your] own” don’t apply.

[Anonymous]

This thread may be getting derailed but I just wanted to highlight that many privates are now in the $80k range (I think USC may be over $90k). And tuition increases every year. So if that's your target plan accordingly.

There are lots of ways to pay much less than that - but not for every/any school. You can run the net price calculator at any school to get a sense of whether your income will make your kid eligible for financial aid, and how much. Do that. But also hunt around here and on other college forums for strategies for finding 'deals' - merit aid, OOS schools that offer instate tuition to high achievers, etc. There are tons of options you can pursue if you are savvy.

But also be clear that for the most part, the top privates and SLACs don't offer merit aid or other 'discounts.' They do offer income-based financial aid of course, but not the price breaks that less competitive schools often use to recruit kids.

Every family needs to figure out what is right for their financial situation and their kid. Most schools can provide a great education, but every kid won't do equally well in every environment. My kid applied to publics and privates, had some great choices including merit, and in the end we're footing a full pay private tuition, with struggle and sacrifice, because we guessed that was best for him. So far it's proven true - he's doing really well and loving college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread may be getting derailed but I just wanted to highlight that many privates are now in the $80k range (I think USC may be over $90k). And tuition increases every year. So if that's your target plan accordingly.

There are lots of ways to pay much less than that - but not for every/any school. You can run the net price calculator at any school to get a sense of whether your income will make your kid eligible for financial aid, and how much. Do that. But also hunt around here and on other college forums for strategies for finding 'deals' - merit aid, OOS schools that offer instate tuition to high achievers, etc. There are tons of options you can pursue if you are savvy.

But also be clear that for the most part, the top privates and SLACs don't offer merit aid or other 'discounts.' They do offer income-based financial aid of course, but not the price breaks that less competitive schools often use to recruit kids.

Every family needs to figure out what is right for their financial situation and their kid. Most schools can provide a great education, but every kid won't do equally well in every environment. My kid applied to publics and privates, had some great choices including merit, and in the end we're footing a full pay private tuition, with struggle and sacrifice, because we guessed that was best for him. So far it's proven true - he's doing really well and loving college.

But IF you are funding this with parent loans at the detriment of retirement savings, I'd argue it is not a smart choice. There are plenty of schools that will give merit and be equally good.

If on the other hand, you have saved for college and can "afford" it easily, then yes, go for it. Fully understand that.

Our youngest turned down a 60% merit award at a T50 school (2nd choice--80K school) to attend their top choice (T40) @ full pay $80K+/year. We can easily afford it and have a fully funded 529. But I get that most people would be sending their kid to the 2nd choice with a $160K savings for the 4 years as the cost savings is too great to ignore.

[Anonymous]

ORM here. We saved $960K for both children combined. 6k per year for 4 yr undergrad and 60K per year for 4 yr of medical school. JIC. we live in a house that cost us >300K.

Plus, bought prepaid in-state MD tuition for 5 years for both - so another 100K.

Neither kid went to med school. They did cs, at state flagship, with merit scholarship (public magnet kids). I ended up paying for room and board only because they did not live at home (30 minutes away).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ORM here. We saved $960K for both children combined. 6k per year for 4 yr undergrad and 60K per year for 4 yr of medical school. JIC. we live in a house that cost us >300K.

Plus, bought prepaid in-state MD tuition for 5 years for both - so another 100K.

Neither kid went to med school. They did cs, at state flagship, with merit scholarship (public magnet kids). I ended up paying for room and board only because they did not live at home (30 minutes away).

60k (not 6K)
<300K for house. Live in an inexpensive neighborhood in an inexpensive house. That allowed us to save for college.

[Anonymous]

We're willing to save to fully cover in-state tuition for all three kids. They wouldn't necessarily have to attend an in-state school, but we're not willing to spend $350K for undergrad. We have no family help, prioritize our own retirement, etc. We'll be glad to help our kids look at other options, apply for scholarships, etc., but we're not willing to pay for any college at the expense of our own retirements and can't afford to maximally fund both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why don’t people with high incomes just pay out of pocket for college expenses instead of running the risk of saving too much in a 529? I know 529’s can be transferred but what if your kids don’t have or want kids? So many variables.

I agree- We live in Maryland and put up to $2500 per year per child in a 529. We saved the rest elsewhere, for that reason. One got a B/K at UMD and went. We paid for the masters and bought them a new car. The other went to a T-50 private with merit at 40K per year. Don't put 250K + in a 529, you don't know how it will end up for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why don’t people with high incomes just pay out of pocket for college expenses instead of running the risk of saving too much in a 529? I know 529’s can be transferred but what if your kids don’t have or want kids? So many variables.

I agree- We live in Maryland and put up to $2500 per year per child in a 529. We saved the rest elsewhere, for that reason. One got a B/K at UMD and went. We paid for the masters and bought them a new car. The other went to a T-50 private with merit at 40K per year. Don't put 250K + in a 529, you don't know how it will end up for your kids.

You can always save it for your grandkids (tax shelter), grad school, or roll a portion over into an IRA. If your child gets a scholarship, you can withdraw the amount equal to the scholarship without penalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has worked a long time in admissions to for a top 10 grad program, I’ve learned that private undergrad gives no advantage to kids looking to go to grad school. Maybe it does for kids in certain fields who don’t plan on grad school, but otherwise it was a completely wasted expense.

It’s worth it for a better education.

What makes you think private undergrad is "a better education" than public? (I went to an Ivy League undergrad but don't particularly think that makes me better educated than anyone else.)

I went to a top 20 LAC for undergrad and a public ivy for grad school, where I was a TA for years, then taught at a not-top-but-not-terrible LAC. You can get a good education at a lot of places, and you can slack at most places if you choose the right major. The lesser institutions include a lot of friction on your way to a degree, and you may think that builds character or you may think that's wasted energy. I wanted my kids to have the option of choosing (they did not all choose):

smaller classes
better access to classes
more-predictable course offerings
better access to professors
an easier time getting accommodations when you're having a crisis
no caps on majors
four years of college housing if you want it
professors who can uphold standards in the face of unhappy parents threatening that their kid needs a better grade or they're taking their tuition and going elsewhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question- why don’t people with high incomes just pay out of pocket for college expenses instead of running the risk of saving too much in a 529? I know 529’s can be transferred but what if your kids don’t have or want kids? So many variables.

I agree- We live in Maryland and put up to $2500 per year per child in a 529. We saved the rest elsewhere, for that reason. One got a B/K at UMD and went. We paid for the masters and bought them a new car. The other went to a T-50 private with merit at 40K per year. Don't put 250K + in a 529, you don't know how it will end up for your kids.

You can always save it for your grandkids (tax shelter), grad school, or roll a portion over into an IRA. If your child gets a scholarship, you can withdraw the amount equal to the scholarship without penalty.

Yes we could have, but we made more money in better investments. Our kids could have gone wherever they wanted, but we didn't need to have $500,000 saved for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has worked a long time in admissions to for a top 10 grad program, I’ve learned that private undergrad gives no advantage to kids looking to go to grad school. Maybe it does for kids in certain fields who don’t plan on grad school, but otherwise it was a completely wasted expense.

It’s worth it for a better education.

What makes you think private undergrad is "a better education" than public? (I went to an Ivy League undergrad but don't particularly think that makes me better educated than anyone else.)

I went to a top 20 LAC for undergrad and a public ivy for grad school, where I was a TA for years, then taught at a not-top-but-not-terrible LAC. You can get a good education at a lot of places, and you can slack at most places if you choose the right major. The lesser institutions include a lot of friction on your way to a degree, and you may think that builds character or you may think that's wasted energy. I wanted my kids to have the option of choosing (they did not all choose):

smaller classes
better access to classes
more-predictable course offerings
better access to professors
an easier time getting accommodations when you're having a crisis
no caps on majors
four years of college housing if you want it
professors who can uphold standards in the face of unhappy parents threatening that their kid needs a better grade or they're taking their tuition and going elsewhere

Thanks for a thoughtful answer to my reflexive anti-Ivy snark.

To be clear, I did get a good education at the Ivy university I went to. I just don't necessarily think having gone there automatically means it was a better education than others got who didn't go there. I am trying to save enough money for my own kids to at least have the option of going to similar schools if they can get in, even though I'm a little skeptical about the value proposition -- we can afford to save both for college and retirement, so I feel like we may as well save more for college rather than spend more on stuff.

[Anonymous]

To fully fund? I would think 4 years of private university, so 320k thereabouts. Of course fully funding public education is a wonderful gift also, but it implies the student’s options are limited and so doesn’t quite meet the “fully funded” language. It’s still a gift that most students don’t have!!

[Anonymous]

For us fully fund for one kid means pilot license plus 4-year degree (so like $400k?) and for another it will likely include medical school. Our desire to fully fund means we'll be working until we're 70.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For us fully fund for one kid means pilot license plus 4-year degree (so like $400k?) and for another it will likely include medical school. Our desire to fully fund means we'll be working until we're 70.

Why does it take 50 years to pay for an education. Something is terribly wrong.