Lay flat flights with miles - worth it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

No it doesn't!

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

"Given how many different types of upgrades American offers, it’s important to understand where you’ll fall on the upgrade list to understand your chance of clearing. Here is how American assigns priority on the upgrade list:

Elite status: From the top down, American will rank all passengers on the upgrade list based on their AAdvantage elite status. Concierge Key members have the highest priority, followed by Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro, Platinum and lastly Gold elites. General members attempting to apply an upgrade certificate (more on that below) will find themselves at the bottom of the list."

That's for "sticker (500-mile) upgrades."

I'm talking about this, which doesn't take status into account: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

First of all, the quoted section applied to all upgrades- it was in the header section.

Second "capacity controls apply" which means you need A or C inventory available, which, good luck on long haul international. And then you are still subject to the upgrade priority list.

The only point I want to make here is that for the average person reading this, know that using miles to upgrade cash discount economy fares to business class on long haul flights (without very high level status) is so rare as to be not worth the effort.

You still haven't stated what your status is. Willing to bet it's EXP or CK if you are seeing upgrades clear from econ to biz on long haul international flights without using SWUs.

Im only PLT. I have no SWUs, and I'm smart enough to know HOW my upgrades are happening. But yes, to be technical, they're all J to F.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

+1. This poster certainly isn't talking about United. It is almost impossible to get confirmed upgrades using miles+copay or plus points on long haul international flights more than a few days before the flight. Sure, there are exceptions, but that's not the norm and certainly not for a passenger with no or low status. I'm Global Services and have basically no hope of clearing my summer international upgrades for 1 person, let alone my entire family. Inventory is tight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

That's irrelevant to this conversation. Does any US airline even still fly F? United sure doesn't. (F=first, J=business)

American has an F class on it's 777-300s, and flies them on a limited set of premium routes. That's it internationally. They also have a specially configured A321 they primarily fly JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO with 10 F seats (which are actually functionally the same as J seats on their 777s). They are getting rid of their separate F sections on the 777-300s and A321s by the end of 2024.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-eliminate-first-class/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

No it doesn't!

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

"Given how many different types of upgrades American offers, it’s important to understand where you’ll fall on the upgrade list to understand your chance of clearing. Here is how American assigns priority on the upgrade list:

Elite status: From the top down, American will rank all passengers on the upgrade list based on their AAdvantage elite status. Concierge Key members have the highest priority, followed by Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro, Platinum and lastly Gold elites. General members attempting to apply an upgrade certificate (more on that below) will find themselves at the bottom of the list."

That's for "sticker (500-mile) upgrades."

I'm talking about this, which doesn't take status into account: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

First of all, the quoted section applied to all upgrades- it was in the header section.

Second "capacity controls apply" which means you need A or C inventory available, which, good luck on long haul international. And then you are still subject to the upgrade priority list.

The only point I want to make here is that for the average person reading this, know that using miles to upgrade cash discount economy fares to business class on long haul flights (without very high level status) is so rare as to be not worth the effort.

You still haven't stated what your status is. Willing to bet it's EXP or CK if you are seeing upgrades clear from econ to biz on long haul international flights without using SWUs.

Im only PLT. I have no SWUs, and I'm smart enough to know HOW my upgrades are happening. But yes, to be technical, they're all J to F.

Ha ha ha ha I am dead

[Anonymous]

It’s an extremely good use of miles at saver rates; less so at standard rates. There are also various tricks to finding good cash deals, e.g. monitoring travel websites for steep discounts (and mistake fares) and trying flight/hotel packages on airline websites (not sure if that still works). I don’t think it’s worth $5-10k.

You should also look for premium economy for long-haul, which is similar to domestic first. It’s a much better value IMO and still makes the flying experience comfortable.