Lay flat flights with miles - worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

More detail here.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/american-airlines-fare-classes/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

No it doesn't!

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

"Given how many different types of upgrades American offers, it’s important to understand where you’ll fall on the upgrade list to understand your chance of clearing. Here is how American assigns priority on the upgrade list:

Elite status: From the top down, American will rank all passengers on the upgrade list based on their AAdvantage elite status. Concierge Key members have the highest priority, followed by Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro, Platinum and lastly Gold elites. General members attempting to apply an upgrade certificate (more on that below) will find themselves at the bottom of the list."

[Anonymous]

It’s probably someone booking a refundable economy or premium plus ticket.

As a 1K member, I can usually call and bump myself up in the line if I’m willing to pay extra… With cash, not miles.

All of these workarounds really only are feasible if you have a good/great status… Otherwise you’re better off just spending 270,000 miles each way for a business class Polaris ticket or whatever it costs. They usually release 4 business class award tickets at a time. And the best time to book saver awards is approximately 300 days before travel. Otherwise wait until 2 to 4 weeks before travel.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

No it doesn't!

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

"Given how many different types of upgrades American offers, it’s important to understand where you’ll fall on the upgrade list to understand your chance of clearing. Here is how American assigns priority on the upgrade list:

Elite status: From the top down, American will rank all passengers on the upgrade list based on their AAdvantage elite status. Concierge Key members have the highest priority, followed by Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro, Platinum and lastly Gold elites. General members attempting to apply an upgrade certificate (more on that below) will find themselves at the bottom of the list."

That's for "sticker (500-mile) upgrades."

I'm talking about this, which doesn't take status into account: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably someone booking a refundable economy or premium plus ticket.

As a 1K member, I can usually call and bump myself up in the line if I’m willing to pay extra… With cash, not miles.

All of these workarounds really only are feasible if you have a good/great status… Otherwise you’re better off just spending 270,000 miles each way for a business class Polaris ticket or whatever it costs. They usually release 4 business class award tickets at a time. And the best time to book saver awards is approximately 300 days before travel. Otherwise wait until 2 to 4 weeks before travel.

Yes. This.

[Anonymous]

Not to interrupt the back & forth, but the next time I travel to Asia (Vietnam where I have family) I will strongly consider breaking up the trip in Japan. Would rather pay the extra money for a few days in Tokyo than a plane ticket upgrade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

The entire point of this thread is that the vast majority of people can't afford even business class fares on long haul international flights. What you are saying is that instead of paying say $6,000 for a first class AA ticket from say JFK-LHR (one of the few routes they actually fly international First, I will note), you spend $4,500 for a business class ticket and then upgrade to First using miles.

Just want to be clear.

It works the same Y > J.

No it doesn't!

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

"Given how many different types of upgrades American offers, it’s important to understand where you’ll fall on the upgrade list to understand your chance of clearing. Here is how American assigns priority on the upgrade list:

Elite status: From the top down, American will rank all passengers on the upgrade list based on their AAdvantage elite status. Concierge Key members have the highest priority, followed by Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro, Platinum and lastly Gold elites. General members attempting to apply an upgrade certificate (more on that below) will find themselves at the bottom of the list."

That's for "sticker (500-mile) upgrades."

I'm talking about this, which doesn't take status into account: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

First of all, the quoted section applied to all upgrades- it was in the header section.

Second "capacity controls apply" which means you need A or C inventory available, which, good luck on long haul international. And then you are still subject to the upgrade priority list.

The only point I want to make here is that for the average person reading this, know that using miles to upgrade cash discount economy fares to business class on long haul flights (without very high level status) is so rare as to be not worth the effort.

You still haven't stated what your status is. Willing to bet it's EXP or CK if you are seeing upgrades clear from econ to biz on long haul international flights without using SWUs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this work? You buy the economy ticket and then use mikes to buy an upgrade? How far in advance can you upgrade?

That's the rub. You usually dont' hear until a day or two before. Rarely, they will announce it a few weeks in advance if busienss class is really empty.

I current have 4 United flights to/from Europe in June and July. One direction in July just had the upgrade clear. The others are all "waitlisted". All are miles upgrades.

What is your status? Don't make an average person feel like this is a reasonably achievable option.

You don't need status to buy upgrades with miles. It doesn't even come to into play. Sounds like PP is using stickers/systemwide upgrades (or whatever non-AA airlines call them). But anyone can call up and purchase with miles at anytime. Those come out of a different fare bucket.

You probably know all this, mostly posting for others.

Yes, but you are talking about booking non-saver award tickets, which take a very large amount of miles (like 150k one way in business to Europe, 200k one way in business to Australia). Those are almost never worth the required miles.

It's the search for saver award tickets that is the real challenge and takes a lot of time and effort, but that's where the real value is in the game.

No, I'm talking purchasing economy fares then using miles (plus a possible copay) to upgrade.

Yes, but as described above, the actual odds of clearing the waitlist for anyone who is not very high elite is almost zero on long haul flights with lie flat seats. So it's not really a viable option for the general population.

What? You can literally call months ahead of time, pay your miles, and be upgraded.

I think you may have gotten extremely lucky, or looked at an unusually low demand flight/route. As described above and in the linked article, it's very unusual to be able to clear the waitlist for mileage upgrades unless you have very high status- this is true across airlines, although United is discussed in detail here. It may also be that you succeeded with mileage upgrades during pandemic times when demand was low.

OMG. There is no waitlist on the fare bucket I'm talking about. Status is irrelevant. I do this frequently (monthly) for both domestic and international flights and have for 6+ years.

You are going to have to go into more detail in that case. Are you talking about booking R class Premium Plus fares, and then upgrading those using miles? That may be a viable option, but you need to have PZ availability. That is very rare months in advance. It does happen more frequently before departure, and yes booking a Premium Plus fare (which are much more expensive than economy and often not that much cheaper than cash business fares) will get you higher on the waitlist than anyone coming from economy, including 1K and GS members.

But again, to understand what you are talking about, you will have to go into much more detail- fare class paid for, flight info (I really doubt this is happening on high demand flights), your status, etc. If it was as easy as you seem to make it, upgrades would be much more common and the airlines wouldn't be able to charge high business class fares internationally if it was this easy to upgrade with miles. That's why it's so hard on long haul flights.

I have no idea how UA does it or what the fares in question are. But it's very possible on AA.

Okay, but you still aren't listing a single one of the details. It's possible on AA, sure.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/upgrades-on-american-airlines/

But finding available upgrade inventory, and being above the elites who are also trying to upgrade on a long haul flight? Not likely unless you are buying very expensive cash economy tickets.

I purchase D or I (international discounted) and usually O (domestic discounted). Never full-fare.

https://cwsi.net/aa.htm

"D: Business Fare. Discounted business"
"I: Business class fare. Discount First/business"

So you are paying cash business fares.

Yes? And I upgrade to F with miles.

That's irrelevant to this conversation. Does any US airline even still fly F? United sure doesn't. (F=first, J=business)