Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the most part a top law school requires two things (unless you’re a development admit/urm)—a great gpa starting with freshman year of college and a great ability to master standardized testing in order to get 170 plus on the LSAT. There are exceptions, sure but this is the general profile. There’s no athletic recruiting or such.

So someone already very motivated academically at age 18 with a great testing ability. So what does this translate to? The same pool of kids going to top 20 undergrads and shooting for top merit scholarships and honors colleges at top flagship publics. (While undergrads have gone test optional, for top schools, you still have kids submitting great scores)

Aren’t top law schools LSAT optional now?

They still require a test—HLS and YLS (not sure about others) require either the LSAT or GRE. You can also elect to do both.

[Anonymous]

The biggest feeders to Harvard and Yale law schools are 1. Their own undergrads and 2. Each other’s undergrads. After that, there are many non-Ivy schools represented (link below).

That said, HLS has a prestige above its ranking. It has a very big class and even prior to this year was ranked 5 or 6. There are other great law schools that are more difficult for admittance.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Harvard Law and this isn't true. Lots of people from well-known, elite undergrad programs. Also lots of people from state flagships or the UC system who clearly excelled in those very large programs and who had impressive college resumes.

I went to Harvard undergrad. There were a few of us -- most people do not want to repeat grad school at their undergrad but I was waitlisted at both of my other top choices (Columbia and Yale) and chose Harvard over Chicago and NYU.

I’d add that a good number of those big state school kids tended to be from their selective merit scholarship (like UC regents scholars or Banneker key at UMD) and honors programs and probably could have gone to Ivy undergrads but chose their instate for financial or other reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is probably more about your familiarity with colleges than about Harvard law admissions.

+1 OP, name the schools you’ve never heard of. DH is a HLS alum, and he went to Williams. His closest law school friends went to UNC, Michigan, Yale, Carleton, Swarthmore, and Harvard undergrad. All well known schools for those who are familiar with top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Narrator: she’s met two HLS grads total

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is not correct.

[Anonymous]

All of my DH’s friends from UVA law went to small schools I had never heard of, and I consider myself more in the know about schools than a lot of folks on here. All of them are super smart and went on to good careers.
They’re a lots of smart folks everywhere, not just at Ivies. Kids pick colleges for many reasons, location and price being top ones.

[Anonymous]

I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

Of course it will. Are you the poster from the internship thread who thinks that GPA doesn’t matter for applying to them if you are a student at a top college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

Literally every word of your post is false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is that?

Where are you meeting all of these graduates from Harvard Law School?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student

Sounds very meritocratic to me, much moreso than the other admissions processes of other kinds of grad programs.

Kids go to random “podunk” undergrad schools for all kinds of reasons—-because they f’ed up in high school, because it’s much cheaper than the flagship in their state (some state flagships are very expensive even instate), because they need to commute etc. It’s not because they’re an irredeemable loser. Some kids don’t hit their stride until college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

You wish!