What Math track to take?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

What is the percentage in Loudoun? In some schools, half the 7th graders take algebra 1 by 7th grade.

LCPS has a higher share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 than FCPS. Until last year, of the LCPS 7th grade SOL takers, just under 40% would take the Algebra 1 SOL. That share dropped sharply last year to 28%. Many factors could be at play, including learning loss and parents deciding not to advance kids given covid gaps. It will be interesting to see this year's shares. One would expect some mean reversion there too.

I would guess that FCPS has more ESOL and FARMs students then Loudoun. We know that the ESOL and FARMs students are less likely to be in AAP and hence less likely to be taking Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. I would guess that there are MS in FCPS were half the kids are in Algebra 1 in MS and that those would be the higher SES MS.

The difference is LCPS does not require IAAT for algebra in 7th grade, and advances kids based on teacher recommendations. I hear they are advancing kids from Foundations in 6th grade to algebra in 7th grade skipping prealgebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

OP - He really likes math, actually in a presentation for school a couple of weeks did a whole slide about how “math is in my heart.” He doesn’t know which way to go either though, even though it’s his favorite subject. We have of course involved him in this discussion.

If he wants to do extra math at home, get him the Art of Problem Solving prealgebra textbook

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

Sorry. Not sure why it's not showing SOL data options. This link should. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

Sorry. Not sure why it's not showing SOL data options. This link should. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

This difference in LCPS and FCPS algebra in middle school was discussed in 2016 on this forum, with a low SOL pass rate for 8th graders because LCPS had only the weakest kids in Math 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

Well I don’t know about OP’s kid but mine just wants to be done with his schoolwork asap and play videogames. However when he isn’t challenged he claims it’s boring. I figured early on I just can’t win with him, so he is in the highest track and he will be unless he is truly miserable! Asking what the kid wants isn’t always informative

That seems plenty informative - he wants to be in a math class that isn't boring.

Kinda hard when school is always boring for him (not for the lack of challenge as far as I can see)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

Well I don’t know about OP’s kid but mine just wants to be done with his schoolwork asap and play videogames. However when he isn’t challenged he claims it’s boring. I figured early on I just can’t win with him, so he is in the highest track and he will be unless he is truly miserable! Asking what the kid wants isn’t always informative

That seems plenty informative - he wants to be in a math class that isn't boring.

Kinda hard when school is always boring for him (not for the lack of challenge as far as I can see)

How do you know it's not due to black of challenge? Have you asked him "do you think it would be less boring if you were in a more challenging class or the next gease's math class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an engineer. Most kids shouldn’t take Calc 2 in high school. Stopping at Calc 1 in high school is just fine. Have him take AP computer science instead or earn some certifications/licenses in the academy track. There’s no award for finishing college first. The journey is just as important. And having to switch to a lower track or always needing tutors to do well can affect a kid’s self-esteem and lead to burn out. Kids who end up in STEM careers still enjoy math in senior year because they find it fun and easy.

Disagree with most of the above - and I am a scientist.

It is easy to switch down or take an alternate course (e.g., Statistics, CS, whatever) than it will be to go up to the faster track. Picking the slower track closes doors right now. Being on the faster track now keeps all doors open. Switching down does not necessarily hurt self-esteem, particularly if doing so LATER ON opens doors for other courses.

Most engineers don’t take and don’t need Statistics. Calculus 1 in high school opens up plenty of doors and is an advanced track.

Not compared to Calculus 2 it doesn't. Many state schools have advanced math classes specifically designed for incoming freshmen with calc BC (like M427L-AP at UT Austin). The fact that you think most engineers don't need statistics is simply comical. Maybe it's true if you want to keep doing CAD, but pretty much everyone who wants to go into management needs to learn statistical process management topics like Lean and Six Sigma. Not to mention being able to create and explain data visualizations.

Most engineers don’t take or need Statistics. It is needed for science and social science majors but not engineers.
https://www.math.utah.edu/~nesse/indexEN.html
https://math.cornell.edu/linear-algebra-multivariable-calculus

Cornell University won’t even award credit for AP Statistics if the student is an engineering major:

https://math.cornell.edu/introductory-stats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Most engineers don’t take and don’t need Statistics.

I partly agree and partly disagree.

It is true many engineers are not _required_ to take statistics for their undergrad degree.

Whether a given engineer needs to know statistics varies widely, depending on their job/duties. Engineers in manufacturing often need statistics to estimate/analyze QA information, for example. People who are testing prototypes also often do. Engineers designing structures or writing software, might not need statistics as much.

[Anonymous]

Academic tracking is racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Most engineers don’t take or need Statistics. It is needed for science and social science majors but not engineers.
https://www.math.utah.edu/~nesse/indexEN.html
https://math.cornell.edu/linear-algebra-multivariable-calculus

Cornell University won’t even award credit for AP Statistics if the student is an engineering major:

https://math.cornell.edu/introductory-stats

This is a misleading statement.
Most engineers *do* take Statistics, in college, *after* the intro calculus sequence. AP credit is not given, because they demand *more* education in Statistics than AP teaches.

Engineering Colleges don't give credit for HS/AP Precalculus either, but obviously the expect students to learn it.
Taking an intro class in high school makes the higher level college class easier.
https://www.amstat.org/asa/files/pdfs/EDU-CollegeMajorsFlyer.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most engineers don’t take or need Statistics. It is needed for science and social science majors but not engineers.
https://www.math.utah.edu/~nesse/indexEN.html
https://math.cornell.edu/linear-algebra-multivariable-calculus

Cornell University won’t even award credit for AP Statistics if the student is an engineering major:

https://math.cornell.edu/introductory-stats

This is a misleading statement.
Most engineers *do* take Statistics, in college, *after* the intro calculus sequence. AP credit is not given, because they demand *more* education in Statistics than AP teaches.

Engineering Colleges don't give credit for HS/AP Precalculus either, but obviously the expect students to learn it.
Taking an intro class in high school makes the higher level college class easier.
https://www.amstat.org/asa/files/pdfs/EDU-CollegeMajorsFlyer.pdf

How long has this class been around, for colleges to refuse to give credit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

Sorry. Not sure why it's not showing SOL data options. This link should. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

This difference in LCPS and FCPS algebra in middle school was discussed in 2016 on this forum, with a low SOL pass rate for 8th graders because LCPS had only the weakest kids in Math 8.

I don't think that was ever supported with data though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

Sorry. Not sure why it's not showing SOL data options. This link should. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

This difference in LCPS and FCPS algebra in middle school was discussed in 2016 on this forum, with a low SOL pass rate for 8th graders because LCPS had only the weakest kids in Math 8.

I don't think that was ever supported with data though.

For 2015-16, VDOE data does show LCPS had a noticeably lower pass rate for Math 8 than FCPS which appears to stem from what kids were taking the test. FCPS 2015-16 Math 8 takers were split nearly equally between advanced 7th and grade level 8th graders, whereas LCPS Math 8 takers were nearly all grade level 8th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

How do you find the data at that link? It just seems to be demographics; no SOL data

Sorry. Not sure why it's not showing SOL data options. This link should. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

This difference in LCPS and FCPS algebra in middle school was discussed in 2016 on this forum, with a low SOL pass rate for 8th graders because LCPS had only the weakest kids in Math 8.

I don't think that was ever supported with data though.

For 2015-16, VDOE data does show LCPS had a noticeably lower pass rate for Math 8 than FCPS which appears to stem from what kids were taking the test. FCPS 2015-16 Math 8 takers were split nearly equally between advanced 7th and grade level 8th graders, whereas LCPS Math 8 takers were nearly all grade level 8th graders.

PP again. Should have said Math 8 SOL takers, not Math 8 takers.