What Math track to take?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an engineer. Most kids shouldn’t take Calc 2 in high school. Stopping at Calc 1 in high school is just fine. Have him take AP computer science instead or earn some certifications/licenses in the academy track. There’s no award for finishing college first. The journey is just as important. And having to switch to a lower track or always needing tutors to do well can affect a kid’s self-esteem and lead to burn out. Kids who end up in STEM careers still enjoy math in senior year because they find it fun and easy.

Disagree with most of the above - and I am a scientist.

It is easy to switch down or take an alternate course (e.g., Statistics, CS, whatever) than it will be to go up to the faster track. Picking the slower track closes doors right now. Being on the faster track now keeps all doors open. Switching down does not necessarily hurt self-esteem, particularly if doing so LATER ON opens doors for other courses.

I'm in stem as well. 20 years out it does not matter when you took courses.

Have your kid be normal and stick with the lower track.

Chances are either the Calc 1 or Calc 2 course is going to be terribly taught and your kid will take Calc 2 in college anyway. Skipping more than one math course in college is usually not recommended.

It helps having had calculus in high school even if you retake it in college. Kids who take college calculus for the first time have a harder road; some dig in and end up doing ok but others can get discouraged. TAs often fly through the material assuming kids have already seen it once.

Yes, it helps to be exposed to calc 1. Kids don’t need calc 2.

AP Calculus BC covers roughly the same material as calc 1 & 2. Kids that have taken BC will find both college calc 1 & 2 easier than would someone who hasn't had it before. While BC may not be necessary for success in college calculus, it helps.

[Anonymous]

OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

[Anonymous]

Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an engineer. Most kids shouldn’t take Calc 2 in high school. Stopping at Calc 1 in high school is just fine. Have him take AP computer science instead or earn some certifications/licenses in the academy track. There’s no award for finishing college first. The journey is just as important. And having to switch to a lower track or always needing tutors to do well can affect a kid’s self-esteem and lead to burn out. Kids who end up in STEM careers still enjoy math in senior year because they find it fun and easy.

Disagree with most of the above - and I am a scientist.

It is easy to switch down or take an alternate course (e.g., Statistics, CS, whatever) than it will be to go up to the faster track. Picking the slower track closes doors right now. Being on the faster track now keeps all doors open. Switching down does not necessarily hurt self-esteem, particularly if doing so LATER ON opens doors for other courses.

Most engineers don’t take and don’t need Statistics. Calculus 1 in high school opens up plenty of doors and is an advanced track.

In the newer version, SAT score will be lower if you don't pick up some basic statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

What is the percentage in Loudoun? In some schools, half the 7th graders take algebra 1 by 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

Well I don’t know about OP’s kid but mine just wants to be done with his schoolwork asap and play videogames. However when he isn’t challenged he claims it’s boring. I figured early on I just can’t win with him, so he is in the highest track and he will be unless he is truly miserable! Asking what the kid wants isn’t always informative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

Well I don’t know about OP’s kid but mine just wants to be done with his schoolwork asap and play videogames. However when he isn’t challenged he claims it’s boring. I figured early on I just can’t win with him, so he is in the highest track and he will be unless he is truly miserable! Asking what the kid wants isn’t always informative

That seems plenty informative - he wants to be in a math class that isn't boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an engineer. Most kids shouldn’t take Calc 2 in high school. Stopping at Calc 1 in high school is just fine. Have him take AP computer science instead or earn some certifications/licenses in the academy track. There’s no award for finishing college first. The journey is just as important. And having to switch to a lower track or always needing tutors to do well can affect a kid’s self-esteem and lead to burn out. Kids who end up in STEM careers still enjoy math in senior year because they find it fun and easy.

Disagree with most of the above - and I am a scientist.

It is easy to switch down or take an alternate course (e.g., Statistics, CS, whatever) than it will be to go up to the faster track. Picking the slower track closes doors right now. Being on the faster track now keeps all doors open. Switching down does not necessarily hurt self-esteem, particularly if doing so LATER ON opens doors for other courses.

Most engineers don’t take and don’t need Statistics. Calculus 1 in high school opens up plenty of doors and is an advanced track.

Not compared to Calculus 2 it doesn't. Many state schools have advanced math classes specifically designed for incoming freshmen with calc BC (like M427L-AP at UT Austin). The fact that you think most engineers don't need statistics is simply comical. Maybe it's true if you want to keep doing CAD, but pretty much everyone who wants to go into management needs to learn statistical process management topics like Lean and Six Sigma. Not to mention being able to create and explain data visualizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

OP - He really likes math, actually in a presentation for school a couple of weeks did a whole slide about how “math is in my heart.” He doesn’t know which way to go either though, even though it’s his favorite subject. We have of course involved him in this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you didn't answer the most important question. What does your kid want to do? Is he perfectly happy in a slower paced class, or is he bored? Does he love math and want to learn more math, or is he not very interested? 4th grade may be young, but he's still old enough to have some input into this process. I wouldn't hold back a kid who loves math and wants to take the higher track. I also wouldn't push a kid into the higher track who doesn't want to do it.

OP - He really likes math, actually in a presentation for school a couple of weeks did a whole slide about how “math is in my heart.” He doesn’t know which way to go either though, even though it’s his favorite subject. We have of course involved him in this discussion.

If math is his favorite subject, and he's scoring 99th percentile in aptitude tests, then definitely put him in the higher track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

What is the percentage in Loudoun? In some schools, half the 7th graders take algebra 1 by 7th grade.

LCPS has a higher share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 than FCPS. Until last year, of the LCPS 7th grade SOL takers, just under 40% would take the Algebra 1 SOL. That share dropped sharply last year to 28%. Many factors could be at play, including learning loss and parents deciding not to advance kids given covid gaps. It will be interesting to see this year's shares. One would expect some mean reversion there too.

[Anonymous]

6th grade honors puts him in Algebra in 7th, Honors Geometry in 8th, requiring his first period to be at the high school and then ends up in 12th with duel college enrollment because he takes AP Calculus as a junior.

As crazy as it sounds we have to make the decision this week on his math placement (he could always try testing out again, but it seems better to get on this track younger). He is an excellent math student, 100s across the board, 99th percentile, blah, blah. Of course 2458430956 different things could happen. But from veteran parents - is it worth going for 6th grade honors next year based on the end result or is he fine with Calculus in 12th grade?

It just depends on how much he likes math. My son is in 8th and wants to be either a math professor or an electrical engineer. He is currently completing Algebra II, and will take pre-calc as a 9th grader. So he will potentially have completed BC Calc by the end of sophomore year. But if he had different interests/career goals, this would not have been the ideal track for him, since he and his school will have to figure out other options for him junior and senior year. I am hoping enough other students are interested in taking higher level courses such that they can be offered through his high school (vs. at a college), but am unsure if that will be the case. He is not interested in taking AP stats at his high school, and would rather wait for the version offered at a future college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

What is the percentage in Loudoun? In some schools, half the 7th graders take algebra 1 by 7th grade.

LCPS has a higher share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 than FCPS. Until last year, of the LCPS 7th grade SOL takers, just under 40% would take the Algebra 1 SOL. That share dropped sharply last year to 28%. Many factors could be at play, including learning loss and parents deciding not to advance kids given covid gaps. It will be interesting to see this year's shares. One would expect some mean reversion there too.

I would guess that FCPS has more ESOL and FARMs students then Loudoun. We know that the ESOL and FARMs students are less likely to be in AAP and hence less likely to be taking Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. I would guess that there are MS in FCPS were half the kids are in Algebra 1 in MS and that those would be the higher SES MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 1 is a common class offered in 7th grade in many places in the country. I would guess that about 15% of 7th graders in FCPS takes Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.** I know that you can expunge a class in MS and retake it so the bigger risk is hurting a kids confidence by having them take a harder math class like Algebra 1 Honors.

** I am getting that number because about 20% of the ES students are in AAP and will be considered for Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I don’t know what percentage of kids are taking Advanced Math in FCPS. You have to pass the IAAT in the 91 percentile and score Pass Advanced in the 7th grade SOL in 6th grade. I am guessing that leads to a little over half the eligible kids entering Algebra 1 H in 7th grade.

Good guess. Yes, of the FCPS 7th grade SOL takers, roughly 15% take the Algebra 1 SOL. Last year, the share was slightly under that because some families may have opted to delay given learning loss but that share is likely to mean revert this year. You can find the data here:
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/

What is the percentage in Loudoun? In some schools, half the 7th graders take algebra 1 by 7th grade.

LCPS has a higher share of 7th graders taking Algebra 1 than FCPS. Until last year, of the LCPS 7th grade SOL takers, just under 40% would take the Algebra 1 SOL. That share dropped sharply last year to 28%. Many factors could be at play, including learning loss and parents deciding not to advance kids given covid gaps. It will be interesting to see this year's shares. One would expect some mean reversion there too.

There were only 3 6th graders in Algebra 1 last year in LCPS, so there should be a huge dropoff.