Why isn't there another academic charter middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who was shut out of the MS lottery and moved because of it, I agree that there should be more spots where parents can comfortably send college-bound kids. But let’s be clear that basis is the only charter that caters to high performers. The only reason there is any differentiation at Latin is because parents pushed hard for it.

But would you have wanted a newly started school, given your understanding of the constraints that charter schools have to operate under?

It's far from clear to me that BASIS would be granted a charter if it wasn't already here and applied today. The PCSB is pushing the equity stuff much harder and might not be willing to tolerate the fail-out model.

No, we would not have tried a new, untested school. And to be clear when I say shut out, I meant only from
Basis and Latin. We actually got in to some others but preferred to move.

I agree that the current focus on equity is not helpful for motivated high achieving competitive kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

Very simple--DC probably has the highest percentage of kids in private schools in the country. Until privates become too cost prohibitive, I really don't think the middle and high school landscape will change. It's ingrained in the culture vs demanding something better. I don't think anywhere else in the country is like this. Pretty sad...

You’ve got it backwards. Plenty of people either move or go private because of the lack of rigor for advanced students. We want to use DCPS but outside of Latin or Hardy (moving inbound for $1m more than our current home) the options aren’t there. Our IB is great but not for our academically advanced child. We have been supplementing but it makes more financial sense to send them to private for middle school.

[Anonymous]

OP. Thank you. This is really interesting. I'm hearing:

1. The same issues affecting DCPS's lack of interest on differentiation/advanced classes are also affecting the charter board's interest in approving this kind of school
2. Medium-term, there may not actually be the gap in terms between supply and demand that I'm imagining because of Banneker expanding, the new high school, and Latin Cooper. (And for me, the high school options do affect how we think about middle school, because it means there's a light at the end of the tunnel/reason to stick around in DC.)
3. It's challenging for a new school to pull this off because you can't do selective admissions and you need a particular student population that may be reluctant to buy into a brand-new school

These all make sense. That BASIS is part of a national chain that had already worked out a lot of their processes, and that Latin Cooper is an additional campus rather than a totally brand-new concept, definitely tracks with #3.

[Anonymous]

i dont think the charter board would necessarily approve basis in dc today. they obtain a high achieving student body using their particular branding and an up or out model to discourage lots of students from enrolling. id maybe like to see dcps open some kind of citywide magnet middle in a eotp location like that is pretty easy to get to from east of the river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There aren't that many middle schoolers who are academically advanced. Between those who want to attend their inbound school or follow the feeder pattern they're already in and the charters that start with ms, most of the need is met. And the dcpcsb is not interested in granting charters to cherry pick rich, white, or high-scoring kids...they want to close the achievement gap.

Not sure this is true anymore though it was more true under the old PCSB administration. That old administration created a report card system that had ways for schools that did more to serve at-risk kids to reach the highest tiers while also recognizing the high performance of schools like Latin and Basis. Under the new system proposed by the PCSB, only schools like Basis are considered highest tier. The new model they are proposing shows that only extremely low at-risk schools make the cut for schools taking PARCC so that will change the distribution and type of charters in the city.

[Anonymous]

It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.

There aren't any efforts to publicize the good happening in those wards - especially since so much more is needed. But data is readily available online if you care for actual truth. By Ward PARCC dashboards at empowerk12.org show the top performing Ward 8 middle schools are charter and the lowest performing are DCPS. The same is true for Ward 7 middle schools. It's not just a little difference either -- it's 5-10 times as many proficient kids.

I agree with you that the tie between parent academic success and kid success is strong. So is the tie between prior academic success and current academic success. Kids who are entering school already proficient tend to stay proficient. But let's not count out schools that are getting more students (who are often coming in with fewer skills and fewer supports) to proficiency.

[Anonymous]

It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.

and that is because schools (either regular DCPS or charter) and politicians are not explicit enough with parents and other adult caregivers regarding what adult supervision and behavioral modeling are necessary on the home front in order to improve student chances of success. If all you know and do is what you have seen around you, then don't expect different outcomes for kids. Don't expect the school system to do it all because they can't.

[Anonymous]

It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.


and that is because schools (either regular DCPS or charter) and politicians are not explicit enough with parents and other adult caregivers regarding what adult supervision and behavioral modeling are necessary on the home front in order to improve student chances of success. If all you know and do is what you have seen around you, then don't expect different outcomes for kids. Don't expect the school system to do it all because they can't.

And the charters in Wards 7 ad 8 that are improving results are most likely the ones that have gotten parental and adult caregiver buy-in. Because just applying to a charter means that a kid has some adult in their life who cares enough to push to find a better educational fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.


and that is because schools (either regular DCPS or charter) and politicians are not explicit enough with parents and other adult caregivers regarding what adult supervision and behavioral modeling are necessary on the home front in order to improve student chances of success. If all you know and do is what you have seen around you, then don't expect different outcomes for kids. Don't expect the school system to do it all because they can't.

And the charters in Wards 7 ad 8 that are improving results are most likely the ones that have gotten parental and adult caregiver buy-in. Because just applying to a charter means that a kid has some adult in their life who cares enough to push to find a better educational fit.

+1

This is always overlooked when comparing charters to public but is really important. Any student with uninvolved parents go to public. Why? Their parents are not going to do the lottery to enroll in a charter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many would say DCI fills that gap, and there are many, many immersion families at feeders that are there as much for the DCI feed as the language itself. We could debate whether DCI really really provides “differentiation/advanced classes”, but I think the buy in from MC EOTP families shows that they see the academics as “good enough.”

if you dont win the lottery an get into a DCI feeder in PK, you are pretty much out of luck getting to DCI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many would say DCI fills that gap, and there are many, many immersion families at feeders that are there as much for the DCI feed as the language itself. We could debate whether DCI really really provides “differentiation/advanced classes”, but I think the buy in from MC EOTP families shows that they see the academics as “good enough.”

if you dont win the lottery an get into a DCI feeder in PK, you are pretty much out of luck getting to DCI

Not true. They went deep on their Mandarin list. Also, you can get into Stokes or MV pretty much any grade after 3rd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many would say DCI fills that gap, and there are many, many immersion families at feeders that are there as much for the DCI feed as the language itself. We could debate whether DCI really really provides “differentiation/advanced classes”, but I think the buy in from MC EOTP families shows that they see the academics as “good enough.”

if you dont win the lottery an get into a DCI feeder in PK, you are pretty much out of luck getting to DCI

Not true. They went deep on their Mandarin list. Also, you can get into Stokes or MV pretty much any grade after 3rd.

not true. And the reason they go deep into mandarin is list is because there is no demand for it in middle school. They shouldnt even offer it at DCI and instead offer more seats for spanish

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It seems like all of DC outside Ward 3 is interested in academic success for middle schoolers, but only where gentrification has occurred are there people demanding acceleration.

In Ward 7 and 8, except for those sending kids westward, parents seem to want schools that will do better than DCPS at getting achievement out of their kids.

Unfortunately because this is anonymous I will say that the tie between parent academic success and child success is strong, so we have a bunch of charters in Wards 7 and 8 not delivering any better results than DCPS despite obviously trying something different.

I think ultimately the demand for tracking is coming from parents who were tracked in secondary schools themselves, either within a school or a larger school system.

and that is because schools (either regular DCPS or charter) and politicians are not explicit enough with parents and other adult caregivers regarding what adult supervision and behavioral modeling are necessary on the home front in order to improve student chances of success. If all you know and do is what you have seen around you, then don't expect different outcomes for kids. Don't expect the school system to do it all because they can't.

This is the new DC. Demanding that kids show up on time, that neither the nor their caregivers scream in classrooms or curse at other people is a violation of "equity". Failing a kid whose work earned an "F" is a violation of "equity". Removing disruptive kids from the classroom setting is a violation of "equity". My prediction is this cycle will not be broken by white folks. It is going to be POC who tell the white folks suffering from liberal guilt to please STFU and sit down. Similar thing happening on City Council regarding police and policing right now. The white liberal woke crowd is being told by Vince and other black leaders to sit down and shut up, because black folks want safe neighborhoods too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i dont think the charter board would necessarily approve basis in dc today. they obtain a high achieving student body using their particular branding and an up or out model to discourage lots of students from enrolling. id maybe like to see dcps open some kind of citywide magnet middle in a eotp location like that is pretty easy to get to from east of the river.

Parent of very happy BASIS kids here. I am certain PCSB would not approve BASIS in the current "performative equity" environment.