Why isn't there another academic charter middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many would say DCI fills that gap, and there are many, many immersion families at feeders that are there as much for the DCI feed as the language itself. We could debate whether DCI really really provides “differentiation/advanced classes”, but I think the buy in from MC EOTP families shows that they see the academics as “good enough.”

Said no one without a kid at DCI, ever.

[Anonymous]

The premise presupposes that there is a single definition of what "advanced" or "high performing" means. One person's rigor is another person's "just memorization".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Sojourner Truth not on this list? Curious why DCUM ignores it.

+1

If people really knew what it offered in terms of personalized learning, they would see how great it is for their advanced students.

My kid is in their second year at Truth. There’s a lot that’s good about the school, but the academics aren’t strong. There are some opportunities for kids to work at a higher level if they want to - I know a couple kids doing advanced math, for example - but the students are not held to high standards at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have to look at how the landscape will be when Latin Cooper is at its full size, when Banneker's larger enrollment is reached, when MacArthur is at its full size, and other things could change too-- like Stuart-Hobson could continue to slowly improve (not saying it will, but it could). When you look at how things will be 5 years from now, it's far from clear that there's enough interest to support an additional school at the scale needed for the school to operate as intended.

This is a good point.

How do Banneker and MacArthur (high schools) address the middle school issue?

They reduce the stress parents feel about getting into an adequate high school, which lowers the stakes for middle school. Many middle school choices are made in the basis of high school feeder access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

The answer is Latin Cooper. A whole bunch of 4th graders from our DCPS on Capitol Hill who didn't get into BASIS or the original Latin wound up there for 5th grade, although this is Latin Cooper's first year. The Latin Cooper 2022 waiting list was short, almost everybody willing to give it a try for 5th grade got it. This fall, there will be lots more spots for 5th and 6th grade, and new spots for 7th. The current building in warehouse isn't too hot, but the school will move to the Kirov Ballet site in two years.

This is totally untrue. My kids are at a Capitol Hill DCPS and there are multiple kids in our 5th grade who were shut out of Latins x 2/BASIS. Many of them are hoping to get into Cooper for 6th when the class expands and I think there is a good chance that *that* WL will be short b/c so many kids found other paths. But the 2 bites at the Cooper apple is a 1 year solution.

It's not totally untrue. It's all relative. Last year, the Latin Cooper 5th grade WL wasn't nearly as long as BASIS' or that of the original Latin. We were around #60 on the Latin Cooper WL in the spring but were offered a spot before school started. We were only #20 on the original Latin WL and never got a spot, and #60 on the BASIS WL and never got a spot there either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

Do those schools actually provide tracking/advanced classes? Or is it just that their school population is self-selective and primarily UMC, with all the benefits that come from that? DCI has a level of tracking in math and languages (but it is not a G&T set-up at all), but it doesn't apply across the whole curriculum.

Basis generally does not track in MS; all students take the same classes. (There is a slight exception for MS math, where a handful of kids move up a level.) A lot of the benefit is the self selection, but it's also that the actual academics are (again, generally) more advanced. But you can't separate the two: It attracts the students it does because of the curriculum, and they can teach the curriculum they do because they have more advantaged (again generally) students, who are then more (generally) prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have to look at how the landscape will be when Latin Cooper is at its full size, when Banneker's larger enrollment is reached, when MacArthur is at its full size, and other things could change too-- like Stuart-Hobson could continue to slowly improve (not saying it will, but it could). When you look at how things will be 5 years from now, it's far from clear that there's enough interest to support an additional school at the scale needed for the school to operate as intended.

This is a good point.

How do Banneker and MacArthur (high schools) address the middle school issue?

No one knows what MacArthur will be.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

Do those schools actually provide tracking/advanced classes? Or is it just that their school population is self-selective and primarily UMC, with all the benefits that come from that? DCI has a level of tracking in math and languages (but it is not a G&T set-up at all), but it doesn't apply across the whole curriculum.

Basis generally does not track in MS; all students take the same classes. (There is a slight exception for MS math, where a handful of kids move up a level.) A lot of the benefit is the self selection, but it's also that the actual academics are (again, generally) more advanced. But you can't separate the two: It attracts the students it does because of the curriculum, and they can teach the curriculum they do because they have more advantaged (again generally) students, who are then more (generally) prepared.

You're understating what BASIS does with STEM in MS and over-stating how tough the curriculum is. BASIS routinely teaches algebra to 6th graders who can handle it, possibly even a 5th grader or two. They also teach more advanced 8th grade sci classes to students who can handle them than those who can't. My kid was bored in humanities classes at BASIS. He didn't find the humanities curriculum all that interesting. BASIS doesn't teach to a MS curriculum that promotes creativity, exploration, invention, group work or hands-on learning. Teachers aren't trained for GT instruction. What the school offers is strong pre AP prep and AP prep, super rigorous for DC public schools, nothing special by upscale suburban standards.

[Anonymous]

+1. BASIS might be academic for middle school, but it's not fantastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

Do those schools actually provide tracking/advanced classes? Or is it just that their school population is self-selective and primarily UMC, with all the benefits that come from that? DCI has a level of tracking in math and languages (but it is not a G&T set-up at all), but it doesn't apply across the whole curriculum.

Basis generally does not track in MS; all students take the same classes. (There is a slight exception for MS math, where a handful of kids move up a level.) A lot of the benefit is the self selection, but it's also that the actual academics are (again, generally) more advanced. But you can't separate the two: It attracts the students it does because of the curriculum, and they can teach the curriculum they do because they have more advantaged (again generally) students, who are then more (generally) prepared.

You're understating what BASIS does with STEM in MS and over-stating how tough the curriculum is. BASIS routinely teaches algebra to 6th graders who can handle it, possibly even a 5th grader or two. They also teach more advanced 8th grade sci classes to students who can handle them than those who can't. My kid was bored in humanities classes at BASIS. He didn't find the humanities curriculum all that interesting. BASIS doesn't teach to a MS curriculum that promotes creativity, exploration, invention, group work or hands-on learning. Teachers aren't trained for GT instruction. What the school offers is strong pre AP prep and AP prep, super rigorous for DC public schools, nothing special by upscale suburban standards.

I was comparing it to other DCPS middle schools, not the highest-achieving Montgomery or Fairfax schools, or private schools, or Hogwarts, or your dream school. (And I'm glad to have my kids at Basis but definitely wish that they had less grammar and more reading and writing in middle school; it's not my dream school either.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Sojourner Truth not on this list? Curious why DCUM ignores it.

+1

If people really knew what it offered in terms of personalized learning, they would see how great it is for their advanced students.

I’ve heard it’s a joke, not academic at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With it being increasingly difficult to get into Latin or BASIS, and with increased demand as more UMC families hit middle school, and with all the uncertainty around selective high school admissions, it seems like there would be a lot of interest in a new charter middle and/or high school whose value prop was differentiation/advanced classes. I know there's Latin Cooper. But are there not more attempts at this because they wouldn't get approved, or because it's very difficult to get the real estate, or something else? Thank you.

Do those schools actually provide tracking/advanced classes? Or is it just that their school population is self-selective and primarily UMC, with all the benefits that come from that? DCI has a level of tracking in math and languages (but it is not a G&T set-up at all), but it doesn't apply across the whole curriculum.

Basis generally does not track in MS; all students take the same classes. (There is a slight exception for MS math, where a handful of kids move up a level.) A lot of the benefit is the self selection, but it's also that the actual academics are (again, generally) more advanced. But you can't separate the two: It attracts the students it does because of the curriculum, and they can teach the curriculum they do because they have more advantaged (again generally) students, who are then more (generally) prepared.

You're understating what BASIS does with STEM in MS and over-stating how tough the curriculum is. BASIS routinely teaches algebra to 6th graders who can handle it, possibly even a 5th grader or two. They also teach more advanced 8th grade sci classes to students who can handle them than those who can't. My kid was bored in humanities classes at BASIS. He didn't find the humanities curriculum all that interesting. BASIS doesn't teach to a MS curriculum that promotes creativity, exploration, invention, group work or hands-on learning. Teachers aren't trained for GT instruction. What the school offers is strong pre AP prep and AP prep, super rigorous for DC public schools, nothing special by upscale suburban standards.

Oh good. Let's do this again because it this horse hasn't yet been beaten to death on DCUM. You need to get a hobby!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1. BASIS might be academic for middle school, but it's not fantastic.

Here we go again. Someone says something positive about BASIS and you feel the need to chime in with "it's not fantastic." No one said it was perfect. This is what you and the few other people who feel wronged by BASIS do. Every comment about BASIS must be met with an observation that it isn't perfect or with a list of schools not in DC that are better. NO ONE SAID IT WAS PERFECT.

You need to move on. Your fixation is unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Sojourner Truth not on this list? Curious why DCUM ignores it.

+1

If people really knew what it offered in terms of personalized learning, they would see how great it is for their advanced students.

My kid is in their second year at Truth. There’s a lot that’s good about the school, but the academics aren’t strong. There are some opportunities for kids to work at a higher level if they want to - I know a couple kids doing advanced math, for example - but the students are not held to high standards at all.

Unfortunately, not all of the teachers are great. Maybe your kid got in one of the not so good ecosystems? I would definitely talk to Justin if you feel that your kid’s teachers don’t have high expectations.

[Anonymous]

Here is the bottom line. Charters cannot track in all subjects in DC. It is what it is.

So to compensate for above, you look at peer group aggregations. Stakes are much higher in middle than elementary school with learning academic content, critical thinking skills and analysis, and the achievement gap is much, much greater than elementary.

The charters mentioned here that are sought after EOTP: Basis, DCI, Latin have enough of a cohort of grade level kids to be able to actually teach grade level content material. In addition, they also have a good enough cohort of above grade level kids to offer advance classes in math which DC allows due to PARCC.

I agree that there should be more charters like above since DCPS refuses to track and actually are taking away what little tracking there is with their race to the bottom. But reality is there are not enough charters with the increasing number of kids coming up in the pipeline who can work at or above grade level.