Bio & Honors Bio and schools with only Honors Bio

[Anonymous]

^down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

But that's too easy I like to blame the county for failing to parent my children!

do you tell that to parents who don't care about their kids' grades?

Most parents who care about their kids education would like a true "honors" class. Don't call it "honors" if it's not. Why the label game?

MCPS is so concerned about correct labels for kids who don't identify as their birth gender or their sexual preference, but not about the rigor of the course. I'd say their concerns are misplaced.

RIGHT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid can take the dumbed down honors class or the heavy work load of the AP class. That leaves the top 5-45% of the class screwed.

Right. Honors-level classes were supposed to be that middle ground between something that was a little more challenging than on-level coursework but not necessarily at the college-level.

Forcing kids to only choose between on-level and college-level is robbing them of options and opportunity, which is sad.

Exactly! It robs student of the time and practice to actually be prepared to do well in AP and DE classes and higher education generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

+1. Soon all subjects (unless it is remedial) will be honors for all. Take the BCC example (this happens in other highschools too). You have these mixed classrooms where honors kids are not doing meaningfully harder work, but, they are getting the GPA boost. Teachers recognize that it isn't really fair to the "non-honors" kids (who also are more likely to be brown). What I don't understand is why MCPS parents continue to accept these mixed level classrooms. These mixed level classrooms and the extreme grade inflation are the main reason we moved to private for HS.

Why don't we just do away with honors as a concept all together if this is how it's going to be?

Then you just have regular classes and AP classes? I really don't understand how we got to this place but since we're here, it's insane to do things the way that we are.

It's been a slow creep since I started teaching in 2005. Around that time was an effort to have actual curriculum documentation for HS courses, instead of there being variations school-to-school and teacher-to-teacher. They also started the common countywide final exams at that time. Those exams highlighted how different performance was across schools and between honors and on-level classes. Even though the same curriculum was supposedly being taught to both groups, the grade distribution was that Honors classes had all kids with As and Bs, and on-level had all the Cs, Ds, and Es. It was apparent which class you were in when you looked at the kids. Rather than instruction for on-level being tailored to help those students achieve the goals of the course, instruction and methods were simplified and content cut. They were taught less, instead of better. One legitimate reason for heterogeneous grouping is to allow struggling learners hear and see examples/questions/discussion from capable peers as modeling for the course content. If it is done well heterogeneous grouping shouldn't dilute the curriculum - the honors students should still be working at a high level. In practice, that doesn't happen, especially since the elimination of final exams in 2016. Without a consistent, countywide goal to measure course achievement, what is actually being taught is back to school/teacher discretion.

What I would like to see is for MCPS to bring back final exams for an HONORS course designation. If you want honors on your transcript (and the GPA bump) then you have to pass a final exam with a minimum grade of C. Otherwise your transcript says regular (not honors). If kids are taught in a heterogeneous group (under honors for all), teachers will have to aim instruction and teaching practices at the higher level of students passing the exam. If kids are taught in separate groups, kids in the "honors" classes have to actually demonstrate they learned and retained material by passing the final exam. And kids in the regular class could still take the exam and earn an honors designation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

+1. Soon all subjects (unless it is remedial) will be honors for all. Take the BCC example (this happens in other highschools too). You have these mixed classrooms where honors kids are not doing meaningfully harder work, but, they are getting the GPA boost. Teachers recognize that it isn't really fair to the "non-honors" kids (who also are more likely to be brown). What I don't understand is why MCPS parents continue to accept these mixed level classrooms. These mixed level classrooms and the extreme grade inflation are the main reason we moved to private for HS.

Why don't we just do away with honors as a concept all together if this is how it's going to be?

Then you just have regular classes and AP classes? I really don't understand how we got to this place but since we're here, it's insane to do things the way that we are.

It's been a slow creep since I started teaching in 2005. Around that time was an effort to have actual curriculum documentation for HS courses, instead of there being variations school-to-school and teacher-to-teacher. They also started the common countywide final exams at that time. Those exams highlighted how different performance was across schools and between honors and on-level classes. Even though the same curriculum was supposedly being taught to both groups, the grade distribution was that Honors classes had all kids with As and Bs, and on-level had all the Cs, Ds, and Es. It was apparent which class you were in when you looked at the kids. Rather than instruction for on-level being tailored to help those students achieve the goals of the course, instruction and methods were simplified and content cut. They were taught less, instead of better. One legitimate reason for heterogeneous grouping is to allow struggling learners hear and see examples/questions/discussion from capable peers as modeling for the course content. If it is done well heterogeneous grouping shouldn't dilute the curriculum - the honors students should still be working at a high level. In practice, that doesn't happen, especially since the elimination of final exams in 2016. Without a consistent, countywide goal to measure course achievement, what is actually being taught is back to school/teacher discretion.

What I would like to see is for MCPS to bring back final exams for an HONORS course designation. If you want honors on your transcript (and the GPA bump) then you have to pass a final exam with a minimum grade of C. Otherwise your transcript says regular (not honors). If kids are taught in a heterogeneous group (under honors for all), teachers will have to aim instruction and teaching practices at the higher level of students passing the exam. If kids are taught in separate groups, kids in the "honors" classes have to actually demonstrate they learned and retained material by passing the final exam. And kids in the regular class could still take the exam and earn an honors designation.

Thank you for taking the time to provide this critical context as an educator! This makes SO much sense. And I like your proposal to tie the honors designation to a final exam! That would help with the grade inflation.