Bio & Honors Bio and schools with only Honors Bio

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

DP.. how is it untrue? Parents and students see that it is true. You state it is untrue. What proof do you have that the statement is untrue?

2 extra questions on a test doesn't make it "honors". That's just pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

Does it really matter? It's not like colleges even use the MCPS GPA. They'll assign the faux honors classes to a scale of 4 anyway. You might find another hobby and focus on something that matters.

DP

It does matter. We want our kids to get an education. It’s not about the grades or the GPA. Our Honors BIO class is a joke compared to what I had in high school years ago. No textbook, stupid videos, and mostly a waste of time.

If my kid is spending 7 hours a day in class, I would like her to actually learn something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

PREEEEEAAAAACCCHHH! You nailed it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

Does it really matter? It's not like colleges even use the MCPS GPA. They'll assign the faux honors classes to a scale of 4 anyway. You might find another hobby and focus on something that matters.

DP

It does matter. We want our kids to get an education. It’s not about the grades or the GPA. Our Honors BIO class is a joke compared to what I had in high school years ago. No textbook, stupid videos, and mostly a waste of time.

If my kid is spending 7 hours a day in class, I would like her to actually learn something.

Then sign up for challenging classes and stop expecting MCPS to parent for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were told at a meeting for incoming B-CC parents last week that honors and non-honors students are in class together and the difference is that honors students have harder tests (not just for biology, but for other subjects, too).

This occurs not just at BCC. It was poorly explained to us before it happened. We thought it was only for the first 1-2 wks and then the students decided whether they wanted to be in honors or non honors and moved to the appropriate class. Nope it was a mixed class. Honors students frustrated all year.

I've had kids at two mcps high schools and mixed regular/honors classes have been the norm for a while. I don't think the mixing of honors and regular curriculum started for equity, I think MCPS just didn't/doesn't want to hire more teachers so they can offer separate sections of these classes. My kid had a bio teacher who was personally against dissection so kids never got to do it. Principal said they couldn't force the teacher. This is what we get with a $3 BILLION budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were told at a meeting for incoming B-CC parents last week that honors and non-honors students are in class together and the difference is that honors students have harder tests (not just for biology, but for other subjects, too).

This occurs not just at BCC. It was poorly explained to us before it happened. We thought it was only for the first 1-2 wks and then the students decided whether they wanted to be in honors or non honors and moved to the appropriate class. Nope it was a mixed class. Honors students frustrated all year.

I've had kids at two mcps high schools and mixed regular/honors classes have been the norm for a while. I don't think the mixing of honors and regular curriculum started for equity, I think MCPS just didn't/doesn't want to hire more teachers so they can offer separate sections of these classes. My kid had a bio teacher who was personally against dissection so kids never got to do it. Principal said they couldn't force the teacher. This is what we get with a $3 BILLION budget.

At our HS we have 4 levels: regular, honors, AP, and magnet. Magnet classes are open to everyone meeting the requirements for 11th and 12th. There's no mixing. You simply sign up for the level you want. I don't know if the distinction between regular or honors but would expect both aren't especially serious. Even when I was at MCPS 30 years ago regular science classes were for kids who struggled with basic multiplication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were told at a meeting for incoming B-CC parents last week that honors and non-honors students are in class together and the difference is that honors students have harder tests (not just for biology, but for other subjects, too).

Practically speaking, at BCC, everyone is in honors bio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

so, AP is the only way students can get any challenging material, and "honors" is just to make some people feel better that certain kids can't handle the more challenging material of AP classes?

[Anonymous]

Your kid can take the dumbed down honors class or the heavy work load of the AP class. That leaves the top 5-45% of the class screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

Its not equitable and in fact a disservice to kids both on level and in honors. There is a difference between Honors and AP classes. Honors classes are meant to be HS classes with greater depth, expectation and sometimes quicker pacing. AP classes are meant to be college level introductory course taken in HS. Further, no HS offers or suggest AP BIo for 9th graders, nor should they. AP Science classes are best taken once you have some background info and understanding of the rigor you are stepping into. Most 9th graders are not ready or prepared. So when you have mixed classes what usually happens, is that its taught as on-level, but still forces the honors students to take the more difficult exams while missing out on the expectation and content. OR the teacher tries to keep the content of the honors course is taught, but the teacher spends a huge amount of time trying to support the on-level students who can’t keep up, usually at the detriment of rigor and expectation of the honor’s level. Equity is about removing artificial barriers to success and leveling the playing field to where everyone has the opportunity to try if they want. Its not about assuming that all people will success in all endeavors if just placed there, particularly without the preparation needed.

Its not equitable to throw everyone into the same class but then downgrade the level of class instruction. its not equitable to throw everyone into a more rigorous class knowing that a whole handful are going to sink because they don’t have the background and skills to succeed. It would however be equitable to allow those who can succeed in a more rigorous class to do so, while still providing a similar on-level class for other students. AND providing other students the skills (time management, vocabulary, math tutoring, etc.) /support (ADHD counselor, study hall, etc) that would allow them to step up to more rigorous classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

But that's too easy I like to blame the county for failing to parent my children!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your kid can take the dumbed down honors class or the heavy work load of the AP class. That leaves the top 5-45% of the class screwed.

Right. Honors-level classes were supposed to be that middle ground between something that was a little more challenging than on-level coursework but not necessarily at the college-level.

Forcing kids to only choose between on-level and college-level is robbing them of options and opportunity, which is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has done away with any meaningful distinctions between honors and on-level courses. If your school offers only honors-level Bio, it's pretty much a regular bio class with honors being in name only.

I assume schools that offer both on-level and honors versions of the same class have some differences, but I've never been able to get a clear articulation of what those differences are from educators or counselors.

I get that you have gripes but this is simply untrue.

It is, in fact, true. Starting with next year's 9th graders, there will be only Honors or AP. So your choices are Honors ESOL, Honors Special Ed, or regular Honors. Regular Honors sweeps up every kid who is not in ESOL or receiving special education services.

Yes, it's a farce. I'm not someone who has complained much about MCPS, but pretending that kids (and teachers) wouldn't benefit from differentiation at that age is just Orwellian. I absolutely understand the concerns about equity, but if that's the issue then keep true Honors classes but remove the gatekeeping measures. Let every kid sign up and sink or swim. But just getting rid of on-level and forcing everyone into an undifferentiated mass is bad for absolutely everyone.

+10000. The way they are doing it is not equity. Removing gate keeping to classes, that’s equity. Providing needed supports and feedback, that’s equity. Encouraging all students to work hard, and binging those students showing the potential to succeed in more rigorous coursework, regardless of background, that’s equity. Throwing in occasionally some harder work in the on level class to see if kids step up or do well and then determining if you can elevate the level of class in certain areas or should suggest some kids move up during the next semester, that’s equity. This is just craziness run amock.

Oh but you are wrong. It is equitable. Your children are encouraged to take AP level classes. So if the problem is that they aren't being challenged by the school-step right in there and sign them up for APs
The only gatekeeper to AP classes, ultimately, is you.

But that's too easy I like to blame the county for failing to parent my children!

do you tell that to parents who don't care about their kids' grades?

Most parents who care about their kids education would like a true "honors" class. Don't call it "honors" if it's not. Why the label game?

MCPS is so concerned about correct labels for kids who don't identify as their birth gender or their sexual preference, but not about the rigor of the course. I'd say their concerns are misplaced.

[Anonymous]

What kid wants to be in a dumbed honors class? NO ONE.