Disappointed in junior staff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.

I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.

But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."

PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.

if you are providing childcare for your child on Mondays and Fridays you arent working. THIS is the problem.

So you only hire people without kids… your budget better speak for itself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.

I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.

But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."

PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.

if you are providing childcare for your child on Mondays and Fridays you arent working. THIS is the problem.

Oh come on, it doesn’t have to be like that. If you’ve planned to WFH, you may not have childcare for commute time or the ability to stay late for a cocktail party. A nanny that stays till 5 is fine if you WFH. If you have to work till 5 and then commute, you need more. Sometimes you might be able to change it but sometimes not because the nanny has her own places to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not put this into the formal review process because these events were not mandatory. I think it is fine to pass on the information informally that the higher ups like folks to go to these things.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it’s mandatory, you need to make it mandatory.

One of you is playing a silly game about “fun” and “worthwhile” and “knowing you should show up” for time that is paid work time you see as essential for team building.

The other is just responding to the directives as given.

Do everyone a favor and stop playing games. If the boss determines that an in person lunch is important for team building and needs to be on Friday? That’s fine! Communicate that clearly. It’s a mandatory activity and a mandatory in office day. Don’t do any dumb little dances about it.

PS I get that the skippers are shooting themselves in the foot and of course I would advise them to show up in terms of their own self-interest. I’m just saying I’m with them in principle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant of your feelings on this, your boss noticed and commented, so the culture of your office (rightly or wrongly) is to judge people based on their presence at these events. I think it would be a kindness to tip off your junior employees. They may be thinking "not mandatory means totally optional, this is just for people who WANT to go" and have absolutely no idea that their absences are noted and commented on.

I would NOT bring this up in their annual review - it is not relevant to their immediate work, and it was optional.

But I would try and give them a heads up, because if I were in their shoes, I'd want to know. Something casual, off the record, like at the end of a phone call. "Hey, just a small thing - Big Boss noticed you weren't at either of the holiday events. I know they are optional, so you have every right not to come, but I figured if I were in your shoes I'd want a heads up that she does pay attention. I think it might help her impression of you if you were able to attend things like this when they come up. If there's anything I can do to make that easier for you, let me know."

PP here - just wanted to add, this also gives them the opportunity to say something like "argh, Mondays and Friday are impossible for me because of childcare! What bad luck!" which then gives YOU the opportunity to advocate for your staff, like saying something to your boss. "Larlo mentioned he was so bummed to miss the cocktail party! He had a scheduling conflict but would have liked to be there." And maybe in the moment next time, instead of shrugging your shoulders when the boss comments, you'd be able to say "oh, yes, they were sad to miss this, the time just did not work for them. Mid week is really much better for my staff" rather than implicitly agreeing with your boss when she commented.

Yes to all of this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.

I’m a millennial and this doesn’t ring true with me at all. But I’ve always been a highly compensated professional. How much are the millennials you’re referring to being paid?

+2

I’m a millennial and understand the importance of showing face - I’m in the office right now though I have a WFH option.

There are those who like to sh** on millennials for no discernible reason.

OP I think that while the junior employees certainly have the right to not attend these events, they’re not doing themselves any favors.

I think a lot depends on the job and the employer. Does your company promote internally and is there a chance of advancement for these employees? I've managed people in roles where there was no real way up other than leaving and those people tended to not care at all about face time or attending anything optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it’s obvious why it’s important to attend these events, then you should be able to articulate the negatives consequences of not attending them couched in terms of how it’s affecting their work, rather than their absence from the in-person events themselves.

This. Even if the work effects are intangible (ie, perception of being not a team player which would factor into promotions), that’s how to frame it. If you don’t feel comfortable staying that, consider your workplace practices around non mandatory events.

There has to be actual consequences though (not that I agree).
If face time is important to promotion regardless of work product, then show that by promoting just the ones who show up. Give all the good work and juicy tidbits just to people who are in person when the head honchos are.

I don't think that you should actually do this. You need to look at total work product obviously. But if there's no impact, then nobody cares.

If face time is important to whatever — than a decent supervisor will clearly and unmistakably communicate this to the entire staff. Punishing or rewarding staff without clearly communicating expectations is poor management, and eventually people will start leaving because of this. It seems likely that many things related to this event were not clearly communicated.

[Anonymous]

OP, retire already. Terrible manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials won’t work a minute longer than they are being paid to work. They have a time clock mentality.

I’m a millennial and this doesn’t ring true with me at all. But I’ve always been a highly compensated professional. How much are the millennials you’re referring to being paid?

+2

I’m a millennial and understand the importance of showing face - I’m in the office right now though I have a WFH option.

There are those who like to sh** on millennials for no discernible reason.

OP I think that while the junior employees certainly have the right to not attend these events, they’re not doing themselves any favors.

I think a lot depends on the job and the employer. Does your company promote internally and is there a chance of advancement for these employees? I've managed people in roles where there was no real way up other than leaving and those people tended to not care at all about face time or attending anything optional.

This is what I see. Back when I was a kid in the 1990s, my employers had a clear path of career progression and we "junior staff" knew impressions were important to getting ahead. Times change. Today, younger workers have eyes and see clearly their working environment: most employees in any organization are viewed as disposable and the employer-employee relationship is completely transactional on a paycheck to paycheck basis. Advancing your career and getting more pay are almost exclusively achieved by changing employers.

It's not that they are millennials. They are rational actors in 2022 (not 1990 when you were their age)

[Anonymous]

You and your boss both sound like poor managers and probably jerks.
I think it's worth mentioning to the junior employees so they know they should start looking for a new job at a company that actually values their employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it’s mandatory, you need to make it mandatory.

One of you is playing a silly game about “fun” and “worthwhile” and “knowing you should show up” for time that is paid work time you see as essential for team building.

The other is just responding to the directives as given.

Do everyone a favor and stop playing games. If the boss determines that an in person lunch is important for team building and needs to be on Friday? That’s fine! Communicate that clearly. It’s a mandatory activity and a mandatory in office day. Don’t do any dumb little dances about it.

PS I get that the skippers are shooting themselves in the foot and of course I would advise them to show up in terms of their own self-interest. I’m just saying I’m with them in principle.

+1

If it's mandatory, just make it mandatory.

[Anonymous]

Ain't no party like an OP party, because an OP party is ... mandatory.

All joking aside, I wouldn't ding the junior staff on their reviews, but might make a point to mention that showing up in person for team events like these is considered when looking at who wants to advance. But if they already disregarded the clear indication they should be there, they probably don't care.

[Anonymous]

Gen X here, and I hate mandated fun. I have kids who have a million random things I have to worry about. I don't want to go downtown for potbelly sandwiches or for a cocktail party that isn't my actual friends. And I love my coworkers and my job. But no thank you to this. Give the team bonuses instead of forced fun. That's what they'd rather have for the holidays anyway.

[Anonymous]

I am currently in bed with Covid. I would not be in a hurry to come into the office for an in-person gathering right now, and usually love that kind of thing.

If it’s mandatory, then tell them it’s mandatory. If it’s not mandatory, then how can you ding them on their performance evaluation for not showing up? In your shoes I would try to figure out what would appeal to them, if anything. And if you’re having events on days/times they usually aren’t there, then you need to get realistic.

[Anonymous]

Looks like your boss set up these events as a litmus test.