Picking up the pieces - how do we address problems were are facing in education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

I'd imagine OP is referring to repercussions from the widely reported increase in mental health issues among teens and children during and following the pandemic. E.g., https://www.pbs.org/newshour/classroom/2022/06/devastating-mental-health-crisis-among-american-teens-today/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/13/health/teen-mental-health-adverse-events-cdc

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8972920/

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/04/early-snapshot-of-pandemics-impact-on-childrens-mental-health/

OK, I'm pulling up the cnn link you posted.

Nearly three-quarters of high school students in the US reported experiencing at least one adverse childhood experience in 2021, such as physical abuse, emotional abuse, food insecurity or loss of a parent’s job during the Covid-19 pandemic. Also included were electronic bullying, dating violence and sexual violence. (snip). And the effects are compounding. About 1 of every 13 adolescents (8%) reported experiencing four or more adverse events during the Covid-19 pandemic. For these students, poor mental health was four times as common and suicide attempts were 25 times more common than for those who did not experience any adverse events.

OK, that sounds bad. Was 2021 worse for high schoolers experiencing those bad events than 2020 or 2019 or 2018?

Here's the actual study:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7141a2.htm?s_cid=mm7141a2_w

It says doesn't have data from prepandemic to compare with, unfortunately. But it does have estimates:

Nearly three of every four U.S. high school students reported at least one ACE, and one in 13 (7.8%) reported four or more ACEs during the COVID-19 pandemic. Comparable prepandemic estimates of cumulative ACE exposure among U.S. adolescents are limited; estimates derived from prepandemic, retrospectively collected data among U.S. adults indicate that 60.9% reported at least one, and 15.6% reported four or more ACEs before age 18 years.

in 2021, sexual violence or "teen dating violence" seemed to be the biggest risk factor for depression and suicidal behavior:

"The prevalence of poor mental health among adolescents who reported specific types of ACEs was high. For example, 82.7% and 82.0% who experienced past-year sexual violence or physical teen dating violence, respectively, felt persistently sad or hopeless. Likewise, exposure to each ACE type was associated with a higher prevalence of seriously considering suicide (aPR range = 1.23–3.13), making a suicide plan (aPR range = 1.74–3.62 [except for parent or caregiver job loss]), and attempting suicide in the past year (aPR range = 1.45–5.42). Suicidal behavior prevalence by each ACE type was high; for example, 33.0% of adolescents who experienced any sexual violence during the past year reported attempting suicide."

So, I'm not sure the trauma students are experiencing in 2021 or now in 2022, is particularly related to having lived through a pandemic. But it really sounds like sexual violence and "teen dating violence" need to be addressed.

Is this something that people think our high schools should do better with? Do kids need date rape prevention strategies?

[Anonymous]

Thoughts:

1) parents need to responsible for DC. While you can’t kick them out for behavior issue you should be able to come up with a contract and schools should be able to suspend where behavior is egregious. There al have to be consequences for extreme behavioral issues.

2) Decrease administrative tasks that teachers need to complete

3) offer tutoring before and after school - make appointments for DC that are below grade level automatic

4) take out 75% of crap that is not educational

5) the 25% that is kept should focus on community activities that create a social construction of belonging for students among a few other things.

6) fund more ancillary activities at the school - robotics, arts, sports, scouts, anything else that will create communication and engagement when kids are finished school

7) extra practice should be available for time out of school -IXL type programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we please float ideas for improving education other than increasing teachers' salaries?

What can be done in the near term to make public education better?

Get rid of all of the teacher busywork so teachers can plan and grade.

As a parent, what can I do about this? Would contacting/emailing the principal help? Or contacting my school board members? Or the new superintendent?

Both those things would help. Also, speak up at PTA meetings. Too often, those meetings generate additional duties for teachers to do that must come out of planning time. Challenge waste of time ideas that do not serve student needs.

[Anonymous]

Parents can start with themselves, the old adage Let it Begin With Me. Meaning don't be a privileged information gatekeeper. Be inclusive.
Start a conversation with a parent who is not your mom bud. Don't look down on parents who aren't "thriving." Try to include them in dialogues, invites, chat groups, etc. about school topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

Have you ever had to deal with a child with depression? "Just move on" doesn't work for adults or children. "Have you tried not being depressed?"

Yikes.

NP. Out of the four of us, DH and DS and DD and me, three of us really struggled with an increase in depression and anxiety during the pandemic and virtual school and afterward. Now, while DH and I are doing so-so, DS is doing fine, as is DD. A return to school, return to expectations, return to/making new friendships is what he needed and what he got.

The academic learning loss is an issue - but schools are the solution to the emotional and psychological trauma for kids, imo. Although I like OP's suggestion for increased mentoring and buddying, which was something that our ES used to do but hasn't resumed yet.

It’s debatable that schools achieve their main goal, educating a population. Why would we add healing from trauma to their plate? People need to parent and get their kids the help they need.

ok, but many of them aren't. it's fun (and easy) to see the world in what people SHOULD do but the reality is that many parents, for various reasons, aren't being the parents that their kids need. and then that carries over to the schools. so...what now? saying "well, people should do this or that" is not a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts:

1) parents need to responsible for DC. While you can’t kick them out for behavior issue you should be able to come up with a contract and schools should be able to suspend where behavior is egregious. There al have to be consequences for extreme behavioral issues.

2) Decrease administrative tasks that teachers need to complete

3) offer tutoring before and after school - make appointments for DC that are below grade level automatic

4) take out 75% of crap that is not educational

5) the 25% that is kept should focus on community activities that create a social construction of belonging for students among a few other things.

6) fund more ancillary activities at the school - robotics, arts, sports, scouts, anything else that will create communication and engagement when kids are finished school

7) extra practice should be available for time out of school -IXL type programs

How would kids get to/from school for those special tutoring sessions? Special bus routes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pay teachers more. We’re going to need the best and brightest, or at least the better and brighter, to tackle this.

MCPS has a 3 BILLION a YEAR budget. They are choosing not to pay teachers more, even though 90% of the budget goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. This cannot be the main issue

If 90% of the budget already goes to teachers, then any significant increase in teacher compensation is going to lead to a huge increase in spending.

Maybe I’m missing your point, but you seem to be demonstrating that increased pay isn’t really practical.

[Anonymous]

Depressingly, I think the only thing that will work is to rebuild trust. And I don’t know how to do that. God knows I don’t trust educators any more, not after watching the gaslighting that went on (my kid has severe dyslexia, and will probably have lifelong impact from the closures). I don’t see how kids learn from educators they don’t trust. And many of them do not trust educators at all now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

Have you ever had to deal with a child with depression? "Just move on" doesn't work for adults or children. "Have you tried not being depressed?"

Yikes.

NP. Out of the four of us, DH and DS and DD and me, three of us really struggled with an increase in depression and anxiety during the pandemic and virtual school and afterward. Now, while DH and I are doing so-so, DS is doing fine, as is DD. A return to school, return to expectations, return to/making new friendships is what he needed and what he got.

The academic learning loss is an issue - but schools are the solution to the emotional and psychological trauma for kids, imo. Although I like OP's suggestion for increased mentoring and buddying, which was something that our ES used to do but hasn't resumed yet.

It’s debatable that schools achieve their main goal, educating a population. Why would we add healing from trauma to their plate? People need to parent and get their kids the help they need.

ok, but many of them aren't. it's fun (and easy) to see the world in what people SHOULD do but the reality is that many parents, for various reasons, aren't being the parents that their kids need. and then that carries over to the schools. so...what now? saying "well, people should do this or that" is not a solution.

At one PTA meeting, a woman from PEP came and did a parenting class and it was so good. I wish schools offered more things like that. I wanted to take more but PEP is far away and the classes aren’t cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depressingly, I think the only thing that will work is to rebuild trust. And I don’t know how to do that. God knows I don’t trust educators any more, not after watching the gaslighting that went on (my kid has severe dyslexia, and will probably have lifelong impact from the closures). I don’t see how kids learn from educators they don’t trust. And many of them do not trust educators at all now.

What? How would the school closures affect kids' trust with their current teachers? Because their parents have been badmouthing teachers this entire time? Sounds like a home/parenting problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we please float ideas for improving education other than increasing teachers' salaries?

What can be done in the near term to make public education better?

Get rid of all of the teacher busywork so teachers can plan and grade.

As a parent, what can I do about this? Would contacting/emailing the principal help? Or contacting my school board members? Or the new superintendent?

We need systematic change. Here's what my teacher's union is asking for:

https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/reduce-crushing-educator-workloads

[Anonymous]

Laying blame at parents/parenting is not addressing the underlying root cause of the problem: Poverty and addiction.

You have children coming to school hungry, from overcrowded housing with multiple families (remember kids keeping cameras off because they were in the bathroom, the only place they could have quiet from younger siblings?), with no heat in the winter and no AC in the summer, perhaps from families with addiction and abuse and worried about paying the rent and providing food, etc., etc. How exactly are these children expected to learn? They have way to much else on their minds.

And teachers, with way too many students in their classrooms, and covering so many other classrooms, and no planning time, and no money for manipulatives and classroom materials, and watching out for those hungry students, those abused students, and meetings and committees and IEPs and 504s and make sure you are ready for lock down drills, shelter in place, etc.

And then there's the other problem: entitled parents. No further description needed.

Smaller class sizes and less demands on individual teachers would be a great start. Of course payroll/benefits is the largest line item in the budget etc, you have to pay the teachers, paraeducators, food and building service workers, etc. who make up MCPS.

Charters and vouchers are a red herring. Schools have been underfunded for years, despite the person screaming about the 3 billion dollar budget for mcps. They've been underfunded in it for Capital projects, underfunded for salaries, etc. It's been by design. Now you can point to the schools, say they're failing, and demand vouchers. By the way, this pulls more money out of the schools, helping them to fail even faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone be specific about what the "trauma" is kids are experiencing right now? I have a 12th grader and a college sophomore (and I teach elementary school) so I may not be aware of what issues other kids are having. My personal children are all very active in sports and activities in high school and college now, despite being in virtual schooling for over a year. I'm not aware of a large amount of trauma and stress in their peer group, except for the stress of college applications of course.

Our ES school seems pretty much normal emotionally. Academically there are still some gaps. We spent much of last year bringing students who were behind up to where they should be, academically but it is true that for some students, there are still gaps especially in math. What these students need IMO is individual or very small group tutoring, summer school, after school extra help. We can't provide it during the day because we have to (our school district insists that we) stick to the curriculum unfortunately. I believe this policy is misguided. They tell us we can "weave in" remediation in "mini-lessons" but what these students need are actual lessons, not ad hoc mini lessons.

But emotional trauma at the elementary school level? What are people seeing that needs to be dealt with?

I was wondering the same thing. I have a 9th grader and 11th grader so my days of being in tune with an elementary school are long gone. The pendulum seems to be swinging back to being more strict with the kids and their behaviors after being extremely understanding last year. That is what I see at my kids' high schools at least.

Shouldn't the same be happening in elementary school? A "carry on, then" attitude? It doesn't need to super strict, but these young kids need to learn they still need to carry-on and what the expectations really are. I find it hard to believe elementary kids are still too "traumatized" for that.

Have you ever had to deal with a child with depression? "Just move on" doesn't work for adults or children. "Have you tried not being depressed?"

Yikes.

NP. Out of the four of us, DH and DS and DD and me, three of us really struggled with an increase in depression and anxiety during the pandemic and virtual school and afterward. Now, while DH and I are doing so-so, DS is doing fine, as is DD. A return to school, return to expectations, return to/making new friendships is what he needed and what he got.

The academic learning loss is an issue - but schools are the solution to the emotional and psychological trauma for kids, imo. Although I like OP's suggestion for increased mentoring and buddying, which was something that our ES used to do but hasn't resumed yet.

It’s debatable that schools achieve their main goal, educating a population. Why would we add healing from trauma to their plate? People need to parent and get their kids the help they need.

ok, but many of them aren't. it's fun (and easy) to see the world in what people SHOULD do but the reality is that many parents, for various reasons, aren't being the parents that their kids need. and then that carries over to the schools. so...what now? saying "well, people should do this or that" is not a solution.

I don't know what the solution is, it's not my problem to fix on a macro level. I know that adding more to an educator's plate seems ridiculous, based on the long hours/low pay they are already facing. They are educators, not counselors, parents, nutritionists (etc etc etc). What's your solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that you are spot on with needing community support to help kids. You have to factor in background checks and so forth for having people come in the building regularly. I don’t know what current regs are.

I have seen the problem from the teacher point of view. There is a huge push for every class in the grade to be in lockstep with regards to instruction. The teacher who has all the IEP kids is pressured to keep pace with the teacher who has the AAP kids, because we need to expect rigor for all the kids. That sounds nice, but really, the kids who are way behind need to work steadily from where they are, and not on what the kids ahead are doing. Each classroom does not need to do exactly the same lessons, and it is not equity to insist that they do so.

The really disruptive kids need to be placed where they can get help, quickly.

Each elementary school should have a reading and a math lab, where kids can come regularly for remedial work to catch up.

The expectation is that a 5th grader sits in class for the focus lesson on multiplying decimals, when they are still working on subtraction. They have to be “exposed to grade level content.” They feel stupid, get nothing out if it, use cognitive energy to try to follow along, and then huddle in the corner with the special ed teacher for a ten minute lesson on subtraction.

To build skills in math, they need to move sequentially through skills, not piecemeal here and there.

I agree with all of this… but I think classrooms should be on ability. My elementary school has 4 identical classrooms. All 4 are way below grade level even though half the kids in each class could do the grade level work. The grade is taught to the bottom quartile. The top kids are just expected to work on their laptops. Why not have 1 rigorous class, 2 on grade classes and 1 remedial class? I would be very upset to hear that some classrooms are allowed to be on grade level but my kids is not because of the classroom makeup. Kids should be allowed to move between classrooms.

Because parents throw loud, ongoing fits if their “brilliant” kid isn’t in the top class, let alone is placed in the remedial class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pay teachers more. We’re going to need the best and brightest, or at least the better and brighter, to tackle this.

Pay more and give more respect and autonomy to the profession. The best and the brightest are not going into teaching anymore, they're doing other things where they can be paid more and do less work, while not having to deal with needy kids or entitled parents.

Stop the excessive mandates from Central office. Stop the paperwork, the meetings, etc. Get more substitutes and more paras. Get more special ed teachers. The only way this will happen, is paying more.

What will teachers do to earn more respect and autonomy, and to build support for more pay?

They don’t need to “earn” autonomy, and intelligent parents already support increased pay.