Is college now just transactional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's about ROI. College undergrad is a likely $200k+ investment for most.

Over 4 years, yes- take some interesting and fun classes, but ensure the degree is one that can support at least a middle class lifestyle.

This. The only kids I know whose parents allowed them to major in something “interesting” like philosophy or anthropology are rich. They can graduate and their parents have connections to get them internships or send them to grad school.

[Anonymous]

My son goes to a liberal arts school and takes interesting classes but he isn’t going to major in them. I don’t have the money for him to graduate and not find a job. I’ve spent 18 yrs raising him to be self-sufficient and his choice of major in college is the icing on the cake. The gravy train has to end somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s partly that academia no longer seems like a viable path. It used to be that if you majored in anthropology or comparative lit or philosophy you could get a PhD and teach (or it seemed like you could). But now almost everyone knows those jobs don’t exist.

But also—I was a humanities major and believe the humanities are dying in part because of the orientation of the disciplines themselves. Where is the study of English going? Literary theory is not a productive direction, imo. What exciting new developments are on the horizon?

Why not? Care to explain, PP?

To be honest, because much of it is BS. (I had a professor, a very admired one, say essentially this in a seminar once, so ). Applying literary theory, as far as I could tell, was about learning to write in tortured, complex language about what would be obvious if expressed simply and clearly. Plus, it was the hot direction for the study of English literature in, what, the 1950s? And feminist theory became big in English departments in the 1970s. And that was essentially what I was studying 30 years later at a top English department. What has happened since? Digital humanities? What are the big breakthroughs and knowledge gains of the past half century in English literature? Can you think of a single new idea?

Meanwhile, the social sciences have moved the other way. Even philosophy, which used to seem like the quintessential "useless" major, has a lot of connections to cognition and AI and human computer interactions--it has become more and more relevant to our present day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I understand that college is expensive and that everyone wants to make a lot of money. And, I’m not suggesting that everyone should major in anthropology or philosophy. Instead, I am suggesting that students could double major or minor in such a subject or at least take classes in them. To the contrary, what I’m seeing is a kid with an elective opting for yoga, nutrition, etc. based on the perception that it’s easy (which it is) and it fits their schedule (nothing in the morning or on Friday), when they could have chosen a serious class in the humanities or liberal arts. I’d like to see a pre-med, business, or computer science major talk to me about how their Buddhism class influenced their thinking about life or their future profession. Or, how different philosophical viewpoints on love impacted their thinking about relationships.

College level nutrition isn't "easy" and it's also an essential skill that more Americans should have knowledge of. On the same note, there's nothing wrong with yoga. Maybe they want to relax after being stressed out in their other classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s partly that academia no longer seems like a viable path. It used to be that if you majored in anthropology or comparative lit or philosophy you could get a PhD and teach (or it seemed like you could). But now almost everyone knows those jobs don’t exist.

But also—I was a humanities major and believe the humanities are dying in part because of the orientation of the disciplines themselves. Where is the study of English going? Literary theory is not a productive direction, imo. What exciting new developments are on the horizon?

Why not? Care to explain, PP?

To be honest, because much of it is BS. (I had a professor, a very admired one, say essentially this in a seminar once, so ). Applying literary theory, as far as I could tell, was about learning to write in tortured, complex language about what would be obvious if expressed simply and clearly. Plus, it was the hot direction for the study of English literature in, what, the 1950s? And feminist theory became big in English departments in the 1970s. And that was essentially what I was studying 30 years later at a top English department. What has happened since? Digital humanities? What are the big breakthroughs and knowledge gains of the past half century in English literature? Can you think of a single new idea?

Meanwhile, the social sciences have moved the other way. Even philosophy, which used to seem like the quintessential "useless" major, has a lot of connections to cognition and AI and human computer interactions--it has become more and more relevant to our present day.

I didn’t know that English had to “progress” to be relevant to our lives. The ability to identify plot lines, flesh out a character profile, argue an interpretation, connect a book to the author’s biography, times and similar works, empathize with the characters (or not) and write well seem equally relevant today as yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I understand that college is expensive and that everyone wants to make a lot of money. And, I’m not suggesting that everyone should major in anthropology or philosophy. Instead, I am suggesting that students could double major or minor in such a subject or at least take classes in them. To the contrary, what I’m seeing is a kid with an elective opting for yoga, nutrition, etc. based on the perception that it’s easy (which it is) and it fits their schedule (nothing in the morning or on Friday), when they could have chosen a serious class in the humanities or liberal arts. I’d like to see a pre-med, business, or computer science major talk to me about how their Buddhism class influenced their thinking about life or their future profession. Or, how different philosophical viewpoints on love impacted their thinking about relationships.

STEM major from a long time ago back again. Once again, you described what I did along with many others I knew. One semester we found something physical that was similar to a PE/self defense class. We took it because it was easy and fun and self defense ended up being useful info to know.

My classes were hard as hell. I didn’t want to use an elective taking an extra philosophy class, which I would have hated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I understand that college is expensive and that everyone wants to make a lot of money. And, I’m not suggesting that everyone should major in anthropology or philosophy. Instead, I am suggesting that students could double major or minor in such a subject or at least take classes in them. To the contrary, what I’m seeing is a kid with an elective opting for yoga, nutrition, etc. based on the perception that it’s easy (which it is) and it fits their schedule (nothing in the morning or on Friday), when they could have chosen a serious class in the humanities or liberal arts. I’d like to see a pre-med, business, or computer science major talk to me about how their Buddhism class influenced their thinking about life or their future profession. Or, how different philosophical viewpoints on love impacted their thinking about relationships.

College level nutrition isn't "easy" and it's also an essential skill that more Americans should have knowledge of. On the same note, there's nothing wrong with yoga. Maybe they want to relax after being stressed out in their other classes.

You can earn college credit for yoga!?

[Anonymous]

^Did you take higher level math or physics for your electives? I could write about how it would be nice to integrate these topics into your philosophy discussions to make you more well rounded. I bet the answer is no. It’s okay to accept that people are different. I think the best thing about college was that you no longer had to continue classes you didn’t want to take.

[Anonymous]

I work with high school seniors. I'm concerned by the number of students I work with who are pursuing STEM/business fields and are also challenged by poor writing skills. The humanities majors will be able to write. There's ROI in that, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Did you take higher level math or physics for your electives? I could write about how it would be nice to integrate these topics into your philosophy discussions to make you more well rounded. I bet the answer is no. It’s okay to accept that people are different. I think the best thing about college was that you no longer had to continue classes you didn’t want to take.

Hahaha, this.

When the English major takes physics as an elective, I’ll believe an engineering major needs extra philosophy.

College is a gateway to a career. check the college box to put the degree on your resume and learn interesting, passionate things on YouTube.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's about ROI. College undergrad is a likely $200k+ investment for most.

Over 4 years, yes- take some interesting and fun classes, but ensure the degree is one that can support at least a middle class lifestyle.

Isn't this common sense
What are people smoking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Did you take higher level math or physics for your electives? I could write about how it would be nice to integrate these topics into your philosophy discussions to make you more well rounded. I bet the answer is no. It’s okay to accept that people are different. I think the best thing about college was that you no longer had to continue classes you didn’t want to take.

Hahaha, this.

When the English major takes physics as an elective, I’ll believe an engineering major needs extra philosophy.

College is a gateway to a career. check the college box to put the degree on your resume and learn interesting, passionate things on YouTube.

+1

There's plenty of time for a hobby after graduation. No need to major in one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Did you take higher level math or physics for your electives? I could write about how it would be nice to integrate these topics into your philosophy discussions to make you more well rounded. I bet the answer is no. It’s okay to accept that people are different. I think the best thing about college was that you no longer had to continue classes you didn’t want to take.

I took…actual academic classes for my electives. Art History, Human Biology, a class on the cultural history of Paris (taught in French). I love yoga, but in no way would I consider even the most intensive yoga class to be on par with these classes. Yoga I did in my free time.

[Anonymous]

I know this is another 1-off, but my DS will be heading to St. John’s next year, which is about as “useless” as can be. He cannot wait!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Did you take higher level math or physics for your electives? I could write about how it would be nice to integrate these topics into your philosophy discussions to make you more well rounded. I bet the answer is no. It’s okay to accept that people are different. I think the best thing about college was that you no longer had to continue classes you didn’t want to take.

Hahaha, this.

When the English major takes physics as an elective, I’ll believe an engineering major needs extra philosophy.

College is a gateway to a career. check the college box to put the degree on your resume and learn interesting, passionate things on YouTube.

My humanities major is taking abstract Algebra and graph theory. College is higher education that should be fodder for relevant careers, but it in itself is not just vocational.