Going to Europe for college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To PP, where did the friend's daughter go to school? Does she have any family ties to Europe and did she do any special preparation -- did she do, for example, an IB diploma?

Utrecht and yes, there is a family connection, although I am not exactly sure how

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With pandemic travel saga and all, i would rather keep my 18 year old here in US, money isn't everything. You can find affordable colleges here.

What travel saga? That htey may get delayed on their way over by a day due to a missed flight connection?

There were college closings, isolated quarantines, lack of grocery supplies, travel bans etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some differences: I have heard that there is a lot less hand holding. Like kids need to find apartments to live in often (i.e., handle housing and meals on their own). Many classes have one test at the end. That can be nerve-wracking, in terms of knowing how you are doing/having no chance to correct mid-course. In the UK, drinking can be taken to extremes/unhealthy levels.

Last but not least, you may be kissing them goodbye for the rest of their lives. My friend's kid met and fell in love with an EU boy. Now they live together and work over there. Makes for few visits, if close contact in your old age (when you have grandkids) was something you had hoped for.

Given where the United States is at this time in history, I'm encouraging my kids to live elsewhere. I would be thrilled if they did that and would visit them/their families, wherever they are, including for weeks or months at a time in a nearby Airbnb.

You say that now, as a middle aged person who is not living on a fixed income or getting Medicare. All if that could change by the time you have grandchildren.

As a 65 year old who just traveled thru Europe…it took a lot more out if me. Also, right wing politics are not something (unfortunately) unique to the US.

I'm 61 and my kids are young adults, and I lived in Europe for years. We will have a good income when we retire in a couple of years and I'm not worried about healthcare coverage including when we travel.

Health issues can limit mobility and travel.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why OP has no concerns about cost of international travel and months of yearly Airbnb accommodations but so concerned about paying tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Which country? Each country has a different educational system.

We're French and not sending our kids to French unis as direct admits. The system was reformed a few years before the pandemic, to deal with an influx of students, and the reform was a disaster, worsened by Covid. ParcourSup is a system of ranked choice that supposedly depends on your Baccalaureat performance, but in practice some very high-scorers sometimes don't get their preferred university choice (or any uni!), which has led to some really bad press in recent years, and deservedly so. High schoolers coming from abroad without the Bac were initially not recognized by the system, and now don't have priority in the system so may not end up getting any of their preferred university choices. It's a complete mess.

Additionally, coming from the American system which does not teach students how to write long essays, admissions counselors generally advise expats not in an accredited French high school to avoid a totally French, writing-heavy, university system, but pick other unis in their countries that have exchange programs with the best French unis instead. Exchange programs cater to international students, which makes them a better fit (and they have classes in French or other languages). Unless you're going for STEM degrees, but then you still run into the ParcourSup issue.

We are looking at British and Canadian universities, particularly McGill, since Montreal is French-speaking.

Slight thread drift. If you want instruction in French (rather than a world renowned university that teaches in English but does everything within Quebec's language laws) look at University de Montreal, especially if your student is more STEM focused.

And, I'm sure you know this already, but Quebec French is very different, especially when it comes to slang and everyday usage.

Thank you! We just visited McGill because DS prefers instruction in English, but finds it comforting to also be able to leave the campus and speak in French. Quebec French has words that are understandable to French speakers, just a little startling when you first hear them, and vice versa. And the people are really nice. He's sure to be accepted with the scores he has (since non-US universities blessedly only look at academics), and the total cost of attendance is comparable to our state University. The problem is the cold. He's not a cold-weather person!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With pandemic travel saga and all, i would rather keep my 18 year old here in US, money isn't everything. You can find affordable colleges here.

What travel saga? That htey may get delayed on their way over by a day due to a missed flight connection?

There were college closings, isolated quarantines, lack of grocery supplies, travel bans etc.

But that’s not true right now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why OP has no concerns about cost of international travel and months of yearly Airbnb accommodations but so concerned about paying tuition.

Because flight+accommodation is not in the same price range as total uni attendance for 3 years (UK, except for Scotland) or 4 years (US). There are no lengthy AirBnB stays involved usually.

For example, Oxford is the same annual cost of attendance as a SLAC in the US, or slightly lower, at about $65K. But it's only for 3 years instead of 4, unless you go for a Classics degree. Even if you go crazy on the flights and hotels, you still save money by going to Oxford.
Now Oxbridge are among the most expensive British unis. If you go to a second-tier, more affordable institution, you save even more. St Andrews is $50K a year, max, but since it's a Scottish institution, you do have to pay for 4 years.

At McGill, if you have enough AP credits, you can start as a second year student, and get your degree in 3 years instead of the regular 4. Tuition depends on major (30 to 60K, and then you add in living expenses).

Please note which unis offer 3 year degrees!!! It can save you significant money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is thinking about attending St. Andrews. He needs to show he's ready to live that far away from home but as a PP mentioned, airfare to the UK and travel time is similar to DC-westcoast.

No, DC to London is 8. hours to Edinburgh then St Andrews, further. DC to LA is 4.5 hours. Not comparable.

But airfare cheaper to UK.

DC to London is only six. My kid’s at Cambridge. I’m bicoastal. i think it’s pretty much the same except I try to do night flights to London snd sleep in the plane. The real difference has been the amount of COViD testing and proof after arrival but, for now, that’s gone.

7 to London and 8 back to DC

It's 6 from NYC

And as I said I’m asleep so am extra hour isn’t even noticed. And it’s 6 hours 30 min from Dulles to lax

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why OP has no concerns about cost of international travel and months of yearly Airbnb accommodations but so concerned about paying tuition.

Because flight+accommodation is not in the same price range as total uni attendance for 3 years (UK, except for Scotland) or 4 years (US). There are no lengthy AirBnB stays involved usually.

For example, Oxford is the same annual cost of attendance as a SLAC in the US, or slightly lower, at about $65K. But it's only for 3 years instead of 4, unless you go for a Classics degree. Even if you go crazy on the flights and hotels, you still save money by going to Oxford.
Now Oxbridge are among the most expensive British unis. If you go to a second-tier, more affordable institution, you save even more. St Andrews is $50K a year, max, but since it's a Scottish institution, you do have to pay for 4 years.

At McGill, if you have enough AP credits, you can start as a second year student, and get your degree in 3 years instead of the regular 4. Tuition depends on major (30 to 60K, and then you add in living expenses).

Please note which unis offer 3 year degrees!!! It can save you significant money!


All true but cost of food, eating out, pubs and doing anything at Oxford is very expensive. My kid lives in a tiny prison cell of a room. Eating out is very expensive so he tries to eat at his college. Get a British rail pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some differences: I have heard that there is a lot less hand holding. Like kids need to find apartments to live in often (i.e., handle housing and meals on their own). Many classes have one test at the end. That can be nerve-wracking, in terms of knowing how you are doing/having no chance to correct mid-course. In the UK, drinking can be taken to extremes/unhealthy levels.

Last but not least, you may be kissing them goodbye for the rest of their lives. My friend's kid met and fell in love with an EU boy. Now they live together and work over there. Makes for few visits, if close contact in your old age (when you have grandkids) was something you had hoped for.

Given where the United States is at this time in history, I'm encouraging my kids to live elsewhere. I would be thrilled if they did that and would visit them/their families, wherever they are, including for weeks or months at a time in a nearby Airbnb.

You say that now, as a middle aged person who is not living on a fixed income or getting Medicare. All if that could change by the time you have grandchildren.

As a 65 year old who just traveled thru Europe…it took a lot more out if me. Also, right wing politics are not something (unfortunately) unique to the US.

I'm 61 and my kids are young adults, and I lived in Europe for years. We will have a good income when we retire in a couple of years and I'm not worried about healthcare coverage including when we travel.

Health issues can limit mobility and travel.

Yes, anything can happen.

It seems important to you to warn me about scenarios that might hamper potential future plans. What’s up with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why OP has no concerns about cost of international travel and months of yearly Airbnb accommodations but so concerned about paying tuition.

Because flight+accommodation is not in the same price range as total uni attendance for 3 years (UK, except for Scotland) or 4 years (US). There are no lengthy AirBnB stays involved usually.

For example, Oxford is the same annual cost of attendance as a SLAC in the US, or slightly lower, at about $65K. But it's only for 3 years instead of 4, unless you go for a Classics degree. Even if you go crazy on the flights and hotels, you still save money by going to Oxford.
Now Oxbridge are among the most expensive British unis. If you go to a second-tier, more affordable institution, you save even more. St Andrews is $50K a year, max, but since it's a Scottish institution, you do have to pay for 4 years.

At McGill, if you have enough AP credits, you can start as a second year student, and get your degree in 3 years instead of the regular 4. Tuition depends on major (30 to 60K, and then you add in living expenses).

Please note which unis offer 3 year degrees!!! It can save you significant money!

I mean, if you’re going to add in unis that give degrees after three years when students have taken AP credits, most US state unis would have to be on the list:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is thinking about attending St. Andrews. He needs to show he's ready to live that far away from home but as a PP mentioned, airfare to the UK and travel time is similar to DC-westcoast.

No, DC to London is 8. hours to Edinburgh then St Andrews, further. DC to LA is 4.5 hours. Not comparable.

But airfare cheaper to UK.

DC to London is only six. My kid’s at Cambridge. I’m bicoastal. i think it’s pretty much the same except I try to do night flights to London snd sleep in the plane. The real difference has been the amount of COViD testing and proof after arrival but, for now, that’s gone.

NP. DC to London is "only six" in one direction--DC to London, and that's in pretty much ideal flight conditions. It's usually listed for seven hours on most flights; I've had it take less than six but that was an outlier.

But coming back from London to DC is always a longer flight, as much as eight to eight and a half hours: https://theconversation.com/why-does-it-take-longer-to-fly-from-east-to-west-on-an-airplane-151180

The OP is talking about sending her kid to an EU country, not the UK, but wanted to add the point re: UK flights not being always a tidy six hours, or six hours in both directions. It's always much more, flying back here, from east to west. Done it annually for about 30 years. Hate the return trip to the US because it's so much longer and usually bumpier as well.

[Anonymous]

Check current requirements in your country. My kids have dual citizenship, and the EU country just added a residency requirement to qualify for the in country tuition. I believe it’s 12 or 18 months before the university begins and the criteria to now prove they are in residence is very strict. I’m secretly relieved bc I have watched their cousins, and it’s really not the same experience as here. They don’t get any choice in what they’re going to major in after acceptance. My niece ended up hating what she was accepted to study and is depressed about it. She ended up taking a year off but feels trapped in a major she doesn’t like. She can’t switch.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of mythical romanticism about Europe here in States.

[Anonymous]

This depends almost entirely on the major and the savings. For us, it is a non-brainer. Kids want to study medicine and it is over a million bucks in savings. The admission process is also much more straightforward.I wouldn't go to, say, Saint Andrews, to study economics and save $20,000.