How important are AP scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My kid submitted only 4s or 5s. He took 9 APs and got one 3 and failed rest. He is smart, but lazy. Got into Michigan, which was his #1. Got a 34 on ACT with perfect score on English. This was last year.

Thank you. Sounds just like my kid! Not sure who Sara Harberson is or why we should care what one random former AO has to say, but this is helpful. Obviously, none of us knows whether any of this matters but it does seem ridiculous to think a 4 on an AP exam would be a reason NOT to admit an applicant.

Definitely makes more sense to listen to an anonymous mom’s anecdote on here than a highly experienced admissions professional. This forum is the best.

Wow, are you a paid promoter or Sara herself? Checked out her website. Sorry, but I’m certainly not going to rely on a random quote from someone who calls themself as “America’s college counselor.” I didn’t say I was making any decisions based on what anyone on this forum had to say, only that the anecdote was helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My kid submitted only 4s or 5s. He took 9 APs and got one 3 and failed rest. He is smart, but lazy. Got into Michigan, which was his #1. Got a 34 on ACT with perfect score on English. This was last year.

Thank you. Sounds just like my kid! Not sure who Sara Harberson is or why we should care what one random former AO has to say, but this is helpful. Obviously, none of us knows whether any of this matters but it does seem ridiculous to think a 4 on an AP exam would be a reason NOT to admit an applicant.

Definitely makes more sense to listen to an anonymous mom’s anecdote on here than a highly experienced admissions professional. This forum is the best.

I’m the pp she responded to, and while it is one anecdote at one top-25 school, it shows that even if the schools *think* a person failed an exam for not submitting scores it may not be a huge factor. In fact, as I said he failed several because he was lazy. People are deciding what to do, and it’s a data point. Everyone is had wringing over everything, so it’s nice to hear that big everyone had perfect applications. Each counselor and school likely has different determinations about what’s important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has a 3.98, 1540 and a 3 on APUSH exam

Affinity for a subject is going to matter.

Some are strictly left or right brain people and no matter how much they study will only raise a score to a certain degree.

My son will not be taking AP Physics or AP Chem. He does fantastic in History, English, Bio, and math (up to a point it's come easily--not sure about Calc yet).

My DD, a junior, got a 2 on AP Calc AB and AP Physics. Wants to go into public policy. All other AP test scores (6 others to date) are 5s. I hope her future schools will consider the fact that she pushed herself very hard to take rigorous math and science classes as a junior with a non-stem focus. We will see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has a 3.98, 1540 and a 3 on APUSH exam

Affinity for a subject is going to matter.

Some are strictly left or right brain people and no matter how much they study will only raise a score to a certain degree.

My son will not be taking AP Physics or AP Chem. He does fantastic in History, English, Bio, and math (up to a point it's come easily--not sure about Calc yet).

My DD, a junior, got a 2 on AP Calc AB and AP Physics. Wants to go into public policy. All other AP test scores (6 others to date) are 5s. I hope her future schools will consider the fact that she pushed herself very hard to take rigorous math and science classes as a junior with a non-stem focus. We will see.

My junior (officially “rising senior” now!) is in a similar boat - is social sciences and humanities oriented but took AP calculus BC and AP physics this past year and scored 3s on the tests. All other AP scores have been 5s. I agree with your take, that it is better to stretch and challenge oneself. unfortunately we essentially heard otherwise from two separate T20 admissions officers. In response to questions as to whether it is better to stretch for the harder AP class and wind up with a B or take the honors class and get an A, that they prefer the stretch with an A (a rather useless and stressful non-answer in my opinion, but I digress). There are always easier and harder options within the AP tests, too, but they all check the rigor box for colleges so I doubt they care if you took BC calculus as a junior or AB calculus as a senior, they just want to see the A / 5 score. In hindsight, I suspect it would have been better for DD to take AB calculus and AP environ science and get 5s per the admin officers answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has a 3.98, 1540 and a 3 on APUSH exam

Affinity for a subject is going to matter.

Some are strictly left or right brain people and no matter how much they study will only raise a score to a certain degree.

My son will not be taking AP Physics or AP Chem. He does fantastic in History, English, Bio, and math (up to a point it's come easily--not sure about Calc yet).

My DD, a junior, got a 2 on AP Calc AB and AP Physics. Wants to go into public policy. All other AP test scores (6 others to date) are 5s. I hope her future schools will consider the fact that she pushed herself very hard to take rigorous math and science classes as a junior with a non-stem focus. We will see.

My junior (officially “rising senior” now!) is in a similar boat - is social sciences and humanities oriented but took AP calculus BC and AP physics this past year and scored 3s on the tests. All other AP scores have been 5s. I agree with your take, that it is better to stretch and challenge oneself. unfortunately we essentially heard otherwise from two separate T20 admissions officers. In response to questions as to whether it is better to stretch for the harder AP class and wind up with a B or take the honors class and get an A, that they prefer the stretch with an A (a rather useless and stressful non-answer in my opinion, but I digress). There are always easier and harder options within the AP tests, too, but they all check the rigor box for colleges so I doubt they care if you took BC calculus as a junior or AB calculus as a senior, they just want to see the A / 5 score. In hindsight, I suspect it would have been better for DD to take AB calculus and AP environ science and get 5s per the admin officers answers.

My kid somewhat similar: likely political science major who took BC Calc as a junior (private school). Got 5 on exam but a B+ in class. I agree with the assessment that this will hurt him for college admissions. Should have taken AB Calc and gotten the A. But having watched him, it is a shame bc that class was a lot harder and kids need practice doing things where they may not meet goals. I wish kids were rewarded for this rather than playing it safe. Certainly many bigger injustices in the world but I think we are setting up kids for failure later down the road if they only stick with the safer choices in fields that they excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To admissions? Not at all.
To placing out of a class that isn’t part of your major, if your student scores well then potentially very good.
Colleges publish which classes/scores transfer in but it can be very nuanced based on what your student wants to study.

Not true. They are absolutely interested in how students have done with college level work. It's a much better indicator of preparedness than the SAT/ACT.

They are a data point. And good ones can only be helpful. But, come on, nobody really thinks that AP classes are “college level work”

The COLLEGES do, enough so that they award credit for them or place students into higher level classes if the scores are high enough. I've had many students tell me there first year of college was easier than their junior and senior years of high school b/c of all the APs they took.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

But then, if you do not submit AP scores other than 5s, then won't the AO know that the student scored below a 5 for the other AP classes? Why wouldn't you submit 3s and 4s to at least show that you didn't get 1s and 2s?

So any answers to this question? Why would they only submit 5s? That clearly shows that the kid didn't score 5s on the other AP tests. Don't they want to show that they got 3s and 4s and not 1s and 2s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To admissions? Not at all.
To placing out of a class that isn’t part of your major, if your student scores well then potentially very good.
Colleges publish which classes/scores transfer in but it can be very nuanced based on what your student wants to study.

Not true. They are absolutely interested in how students have done with college level work. It's a much better indicator of preparedness than the SAT/ACT.

They are a data point. And good ones can only be helpful. But, come on, nobody really thinks that AP classes are “college level work”

The COLLEGES do, enough so that they award credit for them or place students into higher level classes if the scores are high enough. I've had many students tell me there first year of college was easier than their junior and senior years of high school b/c of all the APs they took.

Sure, they can take the credit and move on to the next higher class but be aware that often those skipped entry classes go beyond what was in the AP class (breath & depth), and they will start on the next level class a tad behind the rest. If they are the kid that got a 5 on the AP exam easy breezy, awesome they might be good to go. If they had to really hunker down and do a lot of prep to get that 5 in AP, they might be better off taking the entry level class in college, solidifying their knowledge and getting an easy A that actually counts for their degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

But then, if you do not submit AP scores other than 5s, then won't the AO know that the student scored below a 5 for the other AP classes? Why wouldn't you submit 3s and 4s to at least show that you didn't get 1s and 2s?

So any answers to this question? Why would they only submit 5s? That clearly shows that the kid didn't score 5s on the other AP tests. Don't they want to show that they got 3s and 4s and not 1s and 2s?

At mcps, you don't need to take AP exams so if you don't submit, it maybe because you didn't take the exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

But then, if you do not submit AP scores other than 5s, then won't the AO know that the student scored below a 5 for the other AP classes? Why wouldn't you submit 3s and 4s to at least show that you didn't get 1s and 2s?

So any answers to this question? Why would they only submit 5s? That clearly shows that the kid didn't score 5s on the other AP tests. Don't they want to show that they got 3s and 4s and not 1s and 2s?

Sarah Harberson did address this question in the same blog post:

So for all the students who were happy with their AP scores, you can self-report them in your application if you truly believe they will strengthen your candidacy. If you weren't thrilled with your scores, it's not as big of a deal as you might think. Just leave that section blank or only report what you want. Because in the end, students need to put their best foot forward in the application process. And colleges will evaluate them on what is provided, not on what is left off.

[Anonymous]

Side note for those of you talking about humanities AND social sciences as your child's interest and relating that to math/science scores. Do note that socials sciences uses MATH - so don't discount the math part of your child's application. Personally, I'm not sure I'd submit a 3 on a math/physics test for a social science application. Either that, or say they are doing the more pure humanities major (history?) so they don't wonder whether the applicant has the math skills required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

But then, if you do not submit AP scores other than 5s, then won't the AO know that the student scored below a 5 for the other AP classes? Why wouldn't you submit 3s and 4s to at least show that you didn't get 1s and 2s?

So any answers to this question? Why would they only submit 5s? That clearly shows that the kid didn't score 5s on the other AP tests. Don't they want to show that they got 3s and 4s and not 1s and 2s?

My DC took 10 AP classes total, but only sat for 5 exams. In at T10 so I don’t think the college assumed DC got 1s on the exams that weren’t submitted

[Anonymous]

Only submit 5s or maybe 4s. In today’s water down environment, scoring 3 or lower in an AP exam means you didn’t learn anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To admissions? Not at all.
To placing out of a class that isn’t part of your major, if your student scores well then potentially very good.
Colleges publish which classes/scores transfer in but it can be very nuanced based on what your student wants to study.

Not true. They are absolutely interested in how students have done with college level work. It's a much better indicator of preparedness than the SAT/ACT.

They are a data point. And good ones can only be helpful. But, come on, nobody really thinks that AP classes are “college level work”

The COLLEGES do, enough so that they award credit for them or place students into higher level classes if the scores are high enough. I've had many students tell me there first year of college was easier than their junior and senior years of high school b/c of all the APs they took.

Mostly for electives or placement you can get by taking the college’s placement exam. For many students AP credit is not a magic pill. Depends on the college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

Our (public) HS college counselor, when asked if it is better to report a 4 or not report a 4, told DD that it is best to get a 5 and report it. She said that this was the brutal truth for Top 10 schools for kids coming from our highly ranked public school. She stated that ANY APs without a reported AP score are assumed to be non-5s and can count against you. (Covid was an exception and no longer applies for classes taken this year)

This was even less helpful than the classic advice when asked if its better to get an A in AB Calc or a B+ in BC calc, being told that you should get an A in BC Calc.