How important are AP scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

But then, if you do not submit AP scores other than 5s, then won't the AO know that the student scored below a 5 for the other AP classes? Why wouldn't you submit 3s and 4s to at least show that you didn't get 1s and 2s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

You know what? I don't believe her. I truly don't believe that a "4" on an AP exam, standing alone (as she appears to be suggesting) will close the door on admissions to any college in the US. Including Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

You know what? I don't believe her. I truly don't believe that a "4" on an AP exam, standing alone (as she appears to be suggesting) will close the door on admissions to any college in the US. Including Penn.

I could see if it were down to a few students and they were deciding who to admit but I guarantee they’d take the 4 over someone who didn’t report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

You know what? I don't believe her. I truly don't believe that a "4" on an AP exam, standing alone (as she appears to be suggesting) will close the door on admissions to any college in the US. Including Penn.

Silly. Nothing ever "stands alone" in a holistic admissions process. She's saying a 4 on a test relevant to your intended major can push you out if you're on the bubble. Totally believable, especially at a place as selective as Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

You know what? I don't believe her. I truly don't believe that a "4" on an AP exam, standing alone (as she appears to be suggesting) will close the door on admissions to any college in the US. Including Penn.

Silly. Nothing ever "stands alone" in a holistic admissions process. She's saying a 4 on a test relevant to your intended major can push you out if you're on the bubble. Totally believable, especially at a place as selective as Penn.

As usual, it depends on context, and you're right. They might prefer someone with all 5s, or someone with a 4 who also has an interesting extra-curricular, or whatever. So many combinations! But in the abstract, I don't think you should hide a 4. A 3 maybe? Sigh. We shouldn't have to parse things out like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

You know what? I don't believe her. I truly don't believe that a "4" on an AP exam, standing alone (as she appears to be suggesting) will close the door on admissions to any college in the US. Including Penn.

Silly. Nothing ever "stands alone" in a holistic admissions process. She's saying a 4 on a test relevant to your intended major can push you out if you're on the bubble. Totally believable, especially at a place as selective as Penn.

C'mon, she's contradicting herself. In that same post she said that "if there was ever a time when AP scores don't matter, it's now." Then she says one 4 keeps kids out of Penn. Total BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To admissions? Not at all.
To placing out of a class that isn’t part of your major, if your student scores well then potentially very good.
Colleges publish which classes/scores transfer in but it can be very nuanced based on what your student wants to study.

Not true. They are absolutely interested in how students have done with college level work. It's a much better indicator of preparedness than the SAT/ACT.

They are a data point. And good ones can only be helpful. But, come on, nobody really thinks that AP classes are “college level work”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

This is the important point from her post:

“ So for all the students who were happy with their AP scores, you can self-report them in your application if you truly believe they will strengthen your candidacy. If you weren't thrilled with your scores, it's not as big of a deal as you might think. Just leave that section blank or only report what you want. Because in the end, students need to put their best foot forward in the application process. And colleges will evaluate them on what is provided, not on what is left off.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My kid submitted only 4s or 5s. He took 9 APs and got one 3 and failed rest. He is smart, but lazy. Got into Michigan, which was his #1. Got a 34 on ACT with perfect score on English. This was last year.

Thank you. Sounds just like my kid! Not sure who Sara Harberson is or why we should care what one random former AO has to say, but this is helpful. Obviously, none of us knows whether any of this matters but it does seem ridiculous to think a 4 on an AP exam would be a reason NOT to admit an applicant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so for those of you who, like me, think AP scores are a relevant data point for AO to consider, what do you do if your DC has a mix of 4s and 5s and is shooting for T20-T30 schools? Seems like submitting only the 5s would raise more questions, but the comment about the 4s potentially being a negative in an otherwise strong application give me pause.

My kid submitted only 4s or 5s. He took 9 APs and got one 3 and failed rest. He is smart, but lazy. Got into Michigan, which was his #1. Got a 34 on ACT with perfect score on English. This was last year.

Thank you. Sounds just like my kid! Not sure who Sara Harberson is or why we should care what one random former AO has to say, but this is helpful. Obviously, none of us knows whether any of this matters but it does seem ridiculous to think a 4 on an AP exam would be a reason NOT to admit an applicant.

Definitely makes more sense to listen to an anonymous mom’s anecdote on here than a highly experienced admissions professional. This forum is the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

Must be, b/c my DC did not submit any scores to F&M and got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To admissions? Not at all.
To placing out of a class that isn’t part of your major, if your student scores well then potentially very good.
Colleges publish which classes/scores transfer in but it can be very nuanced based on what your student wants to study.

Not true. They are absolutely interested in how students have done with college level work. It's a much better indicator of preparedness than the SAT/ACT.

They are a data point. And good ones can only be helpful. But, come on, nobody really thinks that AP classes are “college level work”

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You'll get plenty of people on here who claim AP scores are not considered during admissions.

Sorry, but an admissions officer who knows grades are inflated and can't easily be compared between one school system and another will be interested to find that "top" student A earned 5 out of 5 on their AP exams, and "top" student B earned 3.

Same principle for SAT, ACT and IB scores. They all cut across the gpa noise and provide a national basis of comparison. At similar gpa, it really shows you which school inflates grades and which school doesn't.

I thought colleges were well-aware that high SATs scores correlate with high incomes, so are not necessarily indicative of aptitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what Sara Harberson has to say (former AO at Penn and dean of admissions at F&M, iirc):
“If you are applying to highly selective colleges, they like to see 5s on AP exams. Getting a 4 is okay in their eyes, but I have been part of admissions committees where the student gets a 4, especially in a subject matter they plan to pursue, and that's enough of a reason for that student to be denied.”

I assume this was likely from her days at Penn.

Must be, b/c my DC did not submit any scores to F&M and got in.

I assume a 4 wouldn’t be an issue at F&M - guessing it would be stem or econ or similar at Penn. But she didn’t address not submitting any scores so you can’t conclude based on that. That’s a different situation.

[Anonymous]

My kid had to work really hard to get a B in Calculus AB. All other grades were As.

But then made a 5 on the AP Test. Totally submitting that score!