Perception of Service Academies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Almost the same here - my father was drafted and still refers to those two years as the most miserable two years of his life except for having just married my mom. Where I grew up, the only people who would go into the military are people too stupid to get into college who just smoked weed and were going nowhere in life. When I was in 9th grade, my brother was in 12th and between all four grades of over 1,000 kids, we know exactly ONE kid who went into the Coast Guard.

Interesting. My father was drafted and despite being a Thom Hartmann liberal, speaks nothing of respect and admiration for everyone who chooses to serve, their commitment, and their hard work: from the youngest enlisted to the highest officers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sibling who attended a service academy and did the exchange program to spend a semester at other academies. Overall, the academies are an intense experience that can mess up the most sane person. When I meet a ring knocker, I think two things: you're smart but odds are you have trauma that probably clouds your thinking.

Or at least makes you bad at relationships. Not all, of course.

That was my experience while dating an Academy grad. Many of the officers I met through him were the same. I briefly considered applying my Junior year but my grandfather, a high-ranking retired AF officer, suggested that academies were not very safe for women. This was almost 20 years ago and my boyfriend, a graduate of one, confirmed this later when we discussed his time in college. He said that he knew of two women who were assaulted by fellow classmates and that many classmates saw the women as targets. Easy access, little to no repercussions, and that it was seen as a way to weed the "non tough enough" women out. He was a great guy who was close friends with one of the women from his class who was assaulted (I met her) but he was serial cheater, so much so it led to him being reprimanded by command and then he left because of issues from multiple reprimands.

[Anonymous]

They are harder to get into than the Ivy League.

Yes and no. Lots of Ivy Leaguers couldn't meet the physical requirements.That's not just medical disqualifications, but the fitness and requirements and things like minimum height. For the Air Force Academy it's often eyesight.

No, in that many service academy attendees don't have the grades or test scores to get into an Ivy.The one I know who is in his first year has a sub 1400 SAT for example. NOT a URM or first gen.

There are also other special pathways in for non-traditional students who have served in the military.

Difficulty of admission varies by geography too. Generally the reverse of the Ivies. Students from states that lean left generally have an easier job getting in than those from more conservative states. Yes, there are liberals in the officer corps of all services, but more conservative high school kids want to go to a service academy than liberal kids. If you're from Arizona, there will be more applicants per congressional rep than if you are from NY or Mass.

It's also easier for females because fewer females want to do it AND a smaller percentage can meet the fitness requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to the academics, there's also rigorous fitness and health requirements. A service academy would have been perfect for DS but his stupid peanut allergy excludes him from admittance.

Do they specifically exclude students with medical issues?

Yes!
My daughter got admitted and nominated and couldn’t pass medical clearance. There are a whole list of common issues like asthma, ADHD meds, stress fractures.

Interesting. When I applied, the physical and medical history check were completed as part of the application process (i.e., before admissions decisions were made).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In addition to the academics, there's also rigorous fitness and health requirements. A service academy would have been perfect for DS but his stupid peanut allergy excludes him from admittance.

Do they specifically exclude students with medical issues?

Yes!
My daughter got admitted and nominated and couldn’t pass medical clearance. There are a whole list of common issues like asthma, ADHD meds, stress fractures.

Interesting. When I applied, the physical and medical history check were completed as part of the application process (i.e., before admissions decisions were made).

Not sure if it’s changed but she got an LOA and did the fitness test then. After that was medical clearance by DODMERB which she failed spectacularly and couldn’t get a waiver for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Almost the same here - my father was drafted and still refers to those two years as the most miserable two years of his life except for having just married my mom. Where I grew up, the only people who would go into the military are people too stupid to get into college who just smoked weed and were going nowhere in life. When I was in 9th grade, my brother was in 12th and between all four grades of over 1,000 kids, we know exactly ONE kid who went into the Coast Guard.

Interesting. My father was drafted and despite being a Thom Hartmann liberal, speaks nothing of respect and admiration for everyone who chooses to serve, their commitment, and their hard work: from the youngest enlisted to the highest officers.

Note the difference though - my father was drafted along with everyone he was there with. Nobody was CHOOSING to enroll and go to Vietnam. My father had to interrupt his education, his brand new wife had to go on food stamps while she was in college and working two part time jobs, so this was not a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Almost the same here - my father was drafted and still refers to those two years as the most miserable two years of his life except for having just married my mom. Where I grew up, the only people who would go into the military are people too stupid to get into college who just smoked weed and were going nowhere in life. When I was in 9th grade, my brother was in 12th and between all four grades of over 1,000 kids, we know exactly ONE kid who went into the Coast Guard.

Interesting. My father was drafted and despite being a Thom Hartmann liberal, speaks nothing of respect and admiration for everyone who chooses to serve, their commitment, and their hard work: from the youngest enlisted to the highest officers.

Note the difference though - my father was drafted along with everyone he was there with. Nobody was CHOOSING to enroll and go to Vietnam. My father had to interrupt his education, his brand new wife had to go on food stamps while she was in college and working two part time jobs, so this was not a choice.

My father was drafted too. He still didn’t raise children ignorant of the prestige of service academies, or who think only dumb people serve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sibling who attended a service academy and did the exchange program to spend a semester at other academies. Overall, the academies are an intense experience that can mess up the most sane person. When I meet a ring knocker, I think two things: you're smart but odds are you have trauma that probably clouds your thinking.

Or at least makes you bad at relationships. Not all, of course.

That was my experience while dating an Academy grad. Many of the officers I met through him were the same. I briefly considered applying my Junior year but my grandfather, a high-ranking retired AF officer, suggested that academies were not very safe for women. This was almost 20 years ago and my boyfriend, a graduate of one, confirmed this later when we discussed his time in college. He said that he knew of two women who were assaulted by fellow classmates and that many classmates saw the women as targets. Easy access, little to no repercussions, and that it was seen as a way to weed the "non tough enough" women out. He was a great guy who was close friends with one of the women from his class who was assaulted (I met her) but he was serial cheater, so much so it led to him being reprimanded by command and then he left because of issues from multiple reprimands.

Happy to tell you that a lot has changed in 20 years.

[Anonymous]

I am far more impressed with those going to one of the service academies than to HYP (in general). They typically are 1) more well-rounded with higher achievements in all aspects of their life, 2) are heading for a much harder college experience ( again in a well rounded sense), and 3) are signing on for selfless service to their country, for at least a few years.

Of note, I would recommend only dating a service academy grad 2-4 years after they finish. Must go through the typical college experience right after graduation. Lots of repression in those 4 years that needs an outlet!

- wife of AF retiree (non-academy)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Almost the same here - my father was drafted and still refers to those two years as the most miserable two years of his life except for having just married my mom. Where I grew up, the only people who would go into the military are people too stupid to get into college who just smoked weed and were going nowhere in life. When I was in 9th grade, my brother was in 12th and between all four grades of over 1,000 kids, we know exactly ONE kid who went into the Coast Guard.

This thread is about the kids going to service Academies -- not kids smoking weed, "too stupid to get into college" and enlisting in the military. You obviously never anyone going to a service academy in your HS.

[Anonymous]

My daughter has a friend who is aiming for one of the academies. She is an incredibly impressive young woman. The military/U.S. leadership would be lucky to have her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i was chatting with a friend who mentioned that their high achieving rising junior was hoping to attend a service academy (West Point or USNA). They don't have a family military background and are certainly not hurting for money. My sense is that the kid could go to any school they wanted. It's not an understatement to say that choosing a service academy path totally floored me. What is the draw here or what am I missing? Is this considered a prestigious route in some circles?

It's considered a "prestigious route" in ALL circles. Except, maybe, the ignorant ones.

OP here - I'm willing to claim ignorance. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if the family were conservative, but given that they are left-leaning it was surprising. It sounds like I'm the one who needs schooling in this though. My kids are much younger and I'm from the midwest if that serves as any sort of explanation.

Yes, that is an explanation. And I'll leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i was chatting with a friend who mentioned that their high achieving rising junior was hoping to attend a service academy (West Point or USNA). They don't have a family military background and are certainly not hurting for money. My sense is that the kid could go to any school they wanted. It's not an understatement to say that choosing a service academy path totally floored me. What is the draw here or what am I missing? Is this considered a prestigious route in some circles?

It's considered a "prestigious route" in ALL circles. Except, maybe, the ignorant ones.

OP here - I'm willing to claim ignorance. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if the family were conservative, but given that they are left-leaning it was surprising. It sounds like I'm the one who needs schooling in this though. My kids are much younger and I'm from the midwest if that serves as any sort of explanation.

I grew up in the Midwest too, OP and had never heard of it. When meeting my now WP attending husband and he told me where he went to school clearly trying to impress me, I completely blew him off and flippantly said “oh, I’ve never heard of it”. I truly had never heard of it. What a moron I was. Yes, it’s very prestigious.

You had never heard of West Point?

Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Bullshit.

I don’t know how to prove it is true, but it really is. This was 2005 in an area where the closest (tiny) military bases were hours away. It just wasn’t a thing in my life at that time. Totally different mentality in dc adjacent areas, where I now have more military acquaintances than I can count.

I think the bullshit refers to "it was his only option." And I agree. Unless he only applied to Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, OP. I come from a part of the country where I didnt know a single military member/vet other than my drafted grandfathers. Not a single person from my graduating class of 550 went into the military. When my sister’s boyfriend ended up attending the naval academy the following year, we were all fairly shocked—it wasn’t a typical path. (To be completely transparent though, he had applied to a handful of civilian schools and didn’t get in—USNA was the only option he had once decisions came out).

It worked out well for him, but it wasn’t until moving to DC that I learned it’s considered prestigious. I assumed at the time it had been his safety school since it was the only one he got into, lol.

Bullshit.

I don’t know how to prove it is true, but it really is. This was 2005 in an area where the closest (tiny) military bases were hours away. It just wasn’t a thing in my life at that time. Totally different mentality in dc adjacent areas, where I now have more military acquaintances than I can count.

I think the bullshit refers to "it was his only option." And I agree. Unless he only applied to Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Stanford.

Right there is 0% chance that his ONLY option was the Naval Academy. 0%.