NIH Long Covid study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the takeaway this, which most people here don't seem to be understanding: the physical ailments that would generally be responsible for causing the reported symptoms of "long Covid" are not present in higher rates in the Covid test group than in the control group. Meaning, there is, according to this study, no evidence of Covid causing long-term health problems. There is some evidence that those symptoms may be caused by underlying anxiety. So many posters seem to be interpreting this as "long term Covid exists and we still don't know why."

No, that is not the correct interpretation (scientist here). The correct interpretation is not that there are no health problems. In fact, there are numerous studies that connect COVID with increased risk for vascular problems, diabetes, even impotence. That said, long covid is not about increased risk but about symptoms.

The correct interpretation is that “none of the tests performed in this study were significantly different between the two groups.”

There are numerous illnesses we accept as real and that there are no physiological tests for, just reports of symptoms or fuzzy cognitive tests that are impossible to standardize. Examples include schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, ADHD, and chronic back or knee pain. We assume many many people are sick with colds even without finding their specific virus or physiological signals. So the conclusion of this study doesn’t say much. It definitely does not say long covid is just a bunch of lazy fakers, and it definitely doesn’t say it isn’t, either. Science is slow, and is abused if you jump to conclusions.

Like jumping to the conclusion that covid will cause rampant long term damage to the health of the majority of people who get it? Is that the type of conclusion you’re worried about people jumping to?

That would not be a warranted conclusion of this study, but your histrionics are unwarranted. This is one study. It was a high quality study. It ran some good tests. We can draw the conclusions I stated above from it. We cannot address your agenda particular at this stage.

It takes us hundreds of studies to figure out that smoking is bad for you and hundreds of studies to see that oat bran is not a heart panacea. We are learning. We will keep learning, if we continue to be methodical, rigorous and open minded. If you want to be sure of something one way or the other in terms of the far future of this pandemic, sadly science has little to offer you at this stage. This study did not identify physiological signatures of long covid. That is all.

There were long term effects of the 1918 influenza pandemic (for example, increased risk of Parkinson’s by sufferers). There has also a lot of speculation of some sort of post viral syndrome for that pandemic too for which there is reasonably strong circumstantial evidence for this (there is a good discussion of this along with some more speculative ideas in “The Great Influenza,” if you are looking for a popular treatment), but few scientists would say we are able to have conclusive evidence of this being true or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

This. Healthy people don’t have cardiac work ups unless there is a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

I don’t need to justify any of my medical diagnoses to you — someone who seems intent on telling me that it’s all in my head. And no, there were no red flags prior to being infected with covid, but thanks. You never once had bloodwork done? Never a complete physical including imaging? OK. Good for you. Let’s hope you don’t have some latent issue waiting to rear its ugly head since it sounds like you’ve never had to see a doctor. I’m glad I’ve had more thorough medical care throughout my life. Good luck to you. And maybe try being less of an ass at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long covid is way for anxious people to keep hiding from the world

Tell that to my cousin who loved her life and job but who has her 80 year old parents caring for her now that she’s disabled.

Or my nephew who needs two inhalers but never had asthma before.

Just stop. Focus on learning how to write and not making fun of sick people.
I bet you laughed and applauded when Twitler mocked a journalist with disabilities too.

They probably did. One of my evangelical friends is finding outbth vhard way her church doesn't have her back now that she is chronically I'll post Covid. It's what incredibly judgemental people do..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long covid is way for anxious people to keep hiding from the world

Tell that to my cousin who loved her life and job but who has her 80 year old parents caring for her now that she’s disabled.

Or my nephew who needs two inhalers but never had asthma before.

Just stop. Focus on learning how to write and not making fun of sick people.
I bet you laughed and applauded when Twitler mocked a journalist with disabilities too.

Yeah.I actually have two different friends who were confident that if they got COVID they’d be fine. Healthy forty something’s. They weren’t COVID deniers - they vaccinated and masked when required. But they figured they’d be fine. Even when they had it they were like, whatever, just gotta wait it out. One is now eight months and another four months past COVID and they still have exhaustion, fatigued, can’t exert themselves much, etc. Before COVID they worked out a ton etc.

I believe them. They absolutely figured they’d be fine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yup its the new fibromialga

FM is a real diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

I don’t need to justify any of my medical diagnoses to you — someone who seems intent on telling me that it’s all in my head. And no, there were no red flags prior to being infected with covid, but thanks. You never once had bloodwork done? Never a complete physical including imaging? OK. Good for you. Let’s hope you don’t have some latent issue waiting to rear its ugly head since it sounds like you’ve never had to see a doctor. I’m glad I’ve had more thorough medical care throughout my life. Good luck to you. And maybe try being less of an ass at some point.

I’ve also found that people like the PP are most afraid of exactly what you’re describing, so they go to any lengths to discredit the person in an effort to make them feel better about their “low” risk of ending up like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the takeaway this, which most people here don't seem to be understanding: the physical ailments that would generally be responsible for causing the reported symptoms of "long Covid" are not present in higher rates in the Covid test group than in the control group. Meaning, there is, according to this study, no evidence of Covid causing long-term health problems. There is some evidence that those symptoms may be caused by underlying anxiety. So many posters seem to be interpreting this as "long term Covid exists and we still don't know why."

No, that is not the correct interpretation (scientist here). The correct interpretation is not that there are no health problems. In fact, there are numerous studies that connect COVID with increased risk for vascular problems, diabetes, even impotence. That said, long covid is not about increased risk but about symptoms.

The correct interpretation is that “none of the tests performed in this study were significantly different between the two groups.”

There are numerous illnesses we accept as real and that there are no physiological tests for, just reports of symptoms or fuzzy cognitive tests that are impossible to standardize. Examples include schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, ADHD, and chronic back or knee pain. We assume many many people are sick with colds even without finding their specific virus or physiological signals. So the conclusion of this study doesn’t say much. It definitely does not say long covid is just a bunch of lazy fakers, and it definitely doesn’t say it isn’t, either. Science is slow, and is abused if you jump to conclusions.

Like jumping to the conclusion that covid will cause rampant long term damage to the health of the majority of people who get it? Is that the type of conclusion you’re worried about people jumping to?

That would not be a warranted conclusion of this study, but your histrionics are unwarranted. This is one study. It was a high quality study. It ran some good tests. We can draw the conclusions I stated above from it. We cannot address your agenda particular at this stage.

It takes us hundreds of studies to figure out that smoking is bad for you and hundreds of studies to see that oat bran is not a heart panacea. We are learning. We will keep learning, if we continue to be methodical, rigorous and open minded. If you want to be sure of something one way or the other in terms of the far future of this pandemic, sadly science has little to offer you at this stage. This study did not identify physiological signatures of long covid. That is all.

There were long term effects of the 1918 influenza pandemic (for example, increased risk of Parkinson’s by sufferers). There has also a lot of speculation of some sort of post viral syndrome for that pandemic too for which there is reasonably strong circumstantial evidence for this (there is a good discussion of this along with some more speculative ideas in “The Great Influenza,” if you are looking for a popular treatment), but few scientists would say we are able to have conclusive evidence of this being true or not.

NP. The PP you initially responded to didn't state that this study definitively concludes that Long Covid has no physiological cause. She said that it shows that at this point, there is no evidence that the symptoms are related to SARS-CoV-2, because there was no difference in their occurrence between the two arms of the study. That is true, and by the way, it is in line with previous controlled studies of Long Covid. Yes, we need more studies, but this wasn't the first one to come to this finding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yup its the new fibromialga

FM is a real diagnosis.

It’s a diagnosis of exclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the takeaway this, which most people here don't seem to be understanding: the physical ailments that would generally be responsible for causing the reported symptoms of "long Covid" are not present in higher rates in the Covid test group than in the control group. Meaning, there is, according to this study, no evidence of Covid causing long-term health problems. There is some evidence that those symptoms may be caused by underlying anxiety. So many posters seem to be interpreting this as "long term Covid exists and we still don't know why."

No, that is not the correct interpretation (scientist here). The correct interpretation is not that there are no health problems. In fact, there are numerous studies that connect COVID with increased risk for vascular problems, diabetes, even impotence. That said, long covid is not about increased risk but about symptoms.

The correct interpretation is that “none of the tests performed in this study were significantly different between the two groups.”

There are numerous illnesses we accept as real and that there are no physiological tests for, just reports of symptoms or fuzzy cognitive tests that are impossible to standardize. Examples include schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, ADHD, and chronic back or knee pain. We assume many many people are sick with colds even without finding their specific virus or physiological signals. So the conclusion of this study doesn’t say much. It definitely does not say long covid is just a bunch of lazy fakers, and it definitely doesn’t say it isn’t, either. Science is slow, and is abused if you jump to conclusions.

Like jumping to the conclusion that covid will cause rampant long term damage to the health of the majority of people who get it? Is that the type of conclusion you’re worried about people jumping to?

That would not be a warranted conclusion of this study, but your histrionics are unwarranted. This is one study. It was a high quality study. It ran some good tests. We can draw the conclusions I stated above from it. We cannot address your agenda particular at this stage.

It takes us hundreds of studies to figure out that smoking is bad for you and hundreds of studies to see that oat bran is not a heart panacea. We are learning. We will keep learning, if we continue to be methodical, rigorous and open minded. If you want to be sure of something one way or the other in terms of the far future of this pandemic, sadly science has little to offer you at this stage. This study did not identify physiological signatures of long covid. That is all.

There were long term effects of the 1918 influenza pandemic (for example, increased risk of Parkinson’s by sufferers). There has also a lot of speculation of some sort of post viral syndrome for that pandemic too for which there is reasonably strong circumstantial evidence for this (there is a good discussion of this along with some more speculative ideas in “The Great Influenza,” if you are looking for a popular treatment), but few scientists would say we are able to have conclusive evidence of this being true or not.

This is all reasonable, but the problem is that this reasonable approach is not reflected in the way long Covid is covered in the media, nor in the way many individuals draw conclusions about what we as a society should be doing regarding Covid mitigation. If everyone talked about long Covid like this, I don't think you'd get a lot of pushback. Unfortunately, most people who are discussing long Covid these days talk about it as though it is killing as many or more people than Covid itself. They cherry pick anecdotes of people who are suffering with genuinely debilitating issues (often omitting important aspects of that person's medical history) in order to argue in favor of whatever Covid policy they want that day. It's disingenuous and genuinely damaging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

I don’t need to justify any of my medical diagnoses to you — someone who seems intent on telling me that it’s all in my head. And no, there were no red flags prior to being infected with covid, but thanks. You never once had bloodwork done? Never a complete physical including imaging? OK. Good for you. Let’s hope you don’t have some latent issue waiting to rear its ugly head since it sounds like you’ve never had to see a doctor. I’m glad I’ve had more thorough medical care throughout my life. Good luck to you. And maybe try being less of an ass at some point.

NP
Complete physicals don’t include cardiac work ups. Not answering PP’s question tells me there is some predisposing factor at play that you don’t want to acknowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

I don’t need to justify any of my medical diagnoses to you — someone who seems intent on telling me that it’s all in my head. And no, there were no red flags prior to being infected with covid, but thanks. You never once had bloodwork done? Never a complete physical including imaging? OK. Good for you. Let’s hope you don’t have some latent issue waiting to rear its ugly head since it sounds like you’ve never had to see a doctor. I’m glad I’ve had more thorough medical care throughout my life. Good luck to you. And maybe try being less of an ass at some point.

The PP isn't telling you that it's all in your head. The PP is suggesting that there is a physiological cause unrelated to your Covid infection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the takeaway this, which most people here don't seem to be understanding: the physical ailments that would generally be responsible for causing the reported symptoms of "long Covid" are not present in higher rates in the Covid test group than in the control group. Meaning, there is, according to this study, no evidence of Covid causing long-term health problems. There is some evidence that those symptoms may be caused by underlying anxiety. So many posters seem to be interpreting this as "long term Covid exists and we still don't know why."

No, that is not the correct interpretation (scientist here). The correct interpretation is not that there are no health problems. In fact, there are numerous studies that connect COVID with increased risk for vascular problems, diabetes, even impotence. That said, long covid is not about increased risk but about symptoms.

The correct interpretation is that “none of the tests performed in this study were significantly different between the two groups.”

There are numerous illnesses we accept as real and that there are no physiological tests for, just reports of symptoms or fuzzy cognitive tests that are impossible to standardize. Examples include schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, ADHD, and chronic back or knee pain. We assume many many people are sick with colds even without finding their specific virus or physiological signals. So the conclusion of this study doesn’t say much. It definitely does not say long covid is just a bunch of lazy fakers, and it definitely doesn’t say it isn’t, either. Science is slow, and is abused if you jump to conclusions.

Like jumping to the conclusion that covid will cause rampant long term damage to the health of the majority of people who get it? Is that the type of conclusion you’re worried about people jumping to?

That would not be a warranted conclusion of this study, but your histrionics are unwarranted. This is one study. It was a high quality study. It ran some good tests. We can draw the conclusions I stated above from it. We cannot address your agenda particular at this stage.

It takes us hundreds of studies to figure out that smoking is bad for you and hundreds of studies to see that oat bran is not a heart panacea. We are learning. We will keep learning, if we continue to be methodical, rigorous and open minded. If you want to be sure of something one way or the other in terms of the far future of this pandemic, sadly science has little to offer you at this stage. This study did not identify physiological signatures of long covid. That is all.

There were long term effects of the 1918 influenza pandemic (for example, increased risk of Parkinson’s by sufferers). There has also a lot of speculation of some sort of post viral syndrome for that pandemic too for which there is reasonably strong circumstantial evidence for this (there is a good discussion of this along with some more speculative ideas in “The Great Influenza,” if you are looking for a popular treatment), but few scientists would say we are able to have conclusive evidence of this being true or not.

NP. The PP you initially responded to didn't state that this study definitively concludes that Long Covid has no physiological cause. She said that it shows that at this point, there is no evidence that the symptoms are related to SARS-CoV-2, because there was no difference in their occurrence between the two arms of the study. That is true, and by the way, it is in line with previous controlled studies of Long Covid. Yes, we need more studies, but this wasn't the first one to come to this finding.

No actually the original PP claimed that this study said there was “no evidence covid caused long term health problems. “ That is not correct. It compared current physiological test results with current systems. The study did not look at long term health problems. Other studies have in fact found correlations between vascular events such as stroke post covid in the short term, but covid hasn’t been around long enough to assess long term health effects (ie the absolute limit of possibility would be two years, realistically less)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain my cardiac issues that are very clearly seen via MRI and echocardiogram? And no, they weren’t there previously. I am in my 30s, incredibly fit, was running 35-40 miles per week before I got sick (this was pre-vaccine; first wave). Literally couldn’t breathe even though my lung capacity is usually off the charts. I needed inhalers for the first time in my life and even those didn’t work super well. Ekg and blood work showed many abnormalities. I was declared disabled for 1.5 years because I had medical evidence of my persistent illness. These are all very objective measures. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

So you had MRIs and echocardiograms before your 30s? I would have to ask why? If these were not visible before COVID and are now, I could see how you would jump to causation and not correlation. However, I assume you actually never had an MRI or echo before, so you have no evidence. My sister developed the problems that you describe in her mid-30s--in 2002! Long before Covid. And many thousands of others develop these issues in their 30s as well. Please, understand, correlation is not causation. Talk a bit about your mindset overall. What are your stress and anxiety levels like generally?

I had had cardiac work ups before long covid thank you very much. I have been an athlete (former college athlete) my entire life. Now what else do you want to tell me is all in my head?

Why? I was a division 1 college athlete in an actual, cardio intensive sport and never once had a cardiac work up involving EKGs, MRIs, and bloodwork. I assume, then, there was a red flag at some point in time. Wouldn't that be just as likely a suspect in your case of shortness of breath and abnormalities? Related to whatever prompted the testing earlier in your life?

I don’t need to justify any of my medical diagnoses to you — someone who seems intent on telling me that it’s all in my head. And no, there were no red flags prior to being infected with covid, but thanks. You never once had bloodwork done? Never a complete physical including imaging? OK. Good for you. Let’s hope you don’t have some latent issue waiting to rear its ugly head since it sounds like you’ve never had to see a doctor. I’m glad I’ve had more thorough medical care throughout my life. Good luck to you. And maybe try being less of an ass at some point.

Well, with an identical twin who died of a rare and genetic cancer, I"m quite sure that I do have something latent. However, I did not have bloodwork and EKG's done prior to my 30s as a baseline against future viral infections. It's just curious, that's all. As a fellow athlete, I hope your long covid is not here to stay and you're back to running soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the takeaway this, which most people here don't seem to be understanding: the physical ailments that would generally be responsible for causing the reported symptoms of "long Covid" are not present in higher rates in the Covid test group than in the control group. Meaning, there is, according to this study, no evidence of Covid causing long-term health problems. There is some evidence that those symptoms may be caused by underlying anxiety. So many posters seem to be interpreting this as "long term Covid exists and we still don't know why."

Yes, that is the conclusion (the "scientist's" objection notwithstanding), and it is congruent with all other Long Covid studies that had a proper control group. The problem isn't that we don't have the proper tests to pinpoint the physiological cause. The problem is that there is no statistical difference in the prevalence of these symptoms between the test group and the control group, and therefore no evidence that the virus caused the symptoms.

Some experts disagree that the testing was adequate:

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/23/1100878802/a-new-federal-study-is-trying-to-solve-some-of-the-mysterious-about-long-covid

In any event, this study did not find that the control group not previously infected with COVID had the same symptoms as the long COVID group (although I understand that other studies have).

We all hope that long COVID is rare, especially in vaccinated people. Many people have understandable anger about what was lost due to COVID precautions. However, claiming that long COVID is a mental illness is unjustifiably cruel and blind to the fact that, whatever the cause, many people are suffering with an array of symptoms following a COVID infection. The fact that the medical community can't explain it does not mean that these problems don't exist or that they weren't caused by COVID.