Ukraine Azov — what is the deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Is Russia going to invade any country nearby that has a "Nazi" problem? Maybe he could send a few troops here to clean up the Nazi and white supremacy groups? Was Russia being threatened by these "Nazi" groups?

we are not idiots we understand that Russia is absolutely taking advantage of this and nobody believes that it is enough to exonerate Russia from invading Ukraine. They didn't invade because of Azov. We are discussing the optics of Azov being a legitimate, government approved part of Ukrainian army from international perspective, because we are the "international perspective". Unless you are writing your posts from Ukraine..

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?

Posts like this convince me that the Venn diagram of people who think Ukraine has a Nazi problem because of how the Azov battalion got its start and the people who think the United States isn't racist despite how it got its start is a perfect circle.

Umm, no. Those of us who cared to look up some history understand that nazi problem in Ukraine started decades ago and that some Ukrainians were on side of nazi germany in WW2. It is a fact, go look it up. If you think that nazis only appeared in Ukraine in whatever measly numbers in 2014 then you are the one buying the propaganda of another side. Some of us don't want ANY propaganda, I don't care if it comes from Russia or Ukraine, I don't like mind games and being played and this goes for everyone.

Fun fact. Some Irish and Indians were also on the side of the nazis. They had the exact same reason for their stance as Ukrainians. You are forgetting that Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians just prior to WW2. That beng said, there's a lot of racism in eastern europe.

This is classic whataboutism. Is Ireland at war right now with UK invading them and Irish nazi groups becoming a part of the Irish defense army? If this ever happens, trust me, this would be discussed in the same manner.

Also, while I am aware of Holodomor atrocities, Soviets or Russians were not the targets of Bandera nazi groups, it was Polish Ukrainians and Jews. Do you have evidence that Polish Ukrainians and Jews were responsible for Holodomor and hence there was a "reason" for these nazi groups to avenge? Again, please read a little more and educate yourself before posting nonsense. No country is perfect and neither is Ukraine. Not to minimize the suffering of the innocents in Ukraine or their righteous fight for independence, it's ok for people to acknowledge that Ukrainians also have some skeletons in their proverbial closet and aren't some angelic civilization with a god-like leader. If we acknowledge this then we can have educated and sober adult discussions instead of juvenile emotional rollercoasters.

Too difficult to read the fifth sentence?

Ukraine like Russia and Poland has a long history of anti-Semitis. Nobody is denying that. For what it's worth, Russia's current anti-semitism is worse, which makes their claimsbeyond absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today. It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?

Posts like this convince me that the Venn diagram of people who think Ukraine has a Nazi problem because of how the Azov battalion got its start and the people who think the United States isn't racist despite how it got its start is a perfect circle.

Umm, no. Those of us who cared to look up some history understand that nazi problem in Ukraine started decades ago and that some Ukrainians were on side of nazi germany in WW2. It is a fact, go look it up. If you think that nazis only appeared in Ukraine in whatever measly numbers in 2014 then you are the one buying the propaganda of another side. Some of us don't want ANY propaganda, I don't care if it comes from Russia or Ukraine, I don't like mind games and being played and this goes for everyone.

Fun fact. Some Irish and Indians were also on the side of the nazis. They had the exact same reason for their stance as Ukrainians. You are forgetting that Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians just prior to WW2. That beng said, there's a lot of racism in eastern europe.

This is classic whataboutism. Is Ireland at war right now with UK invading them and Irish nazi groups becoming a part of the Irish defense army? If this ever happens, trust me, this would be discussed in the same manner.

Also, while I am aware of Holodomor atrocities, Soviets or Russians were not the targets of Bandera nazi groups, it was Polish Ukrainians and Jews. Do you have evidence that Polish Ukrainians and Jews were responsible for Holodomor and hence there was a "reason" for these nazi groups to avenge? Again, please read a little more and educate yourself before posting nonsense. No country is perfect and neither is Ukraine. Not to minimize the suffering of the innocents in Ukraine or their righteous fight for independence, it's ok for people to acknowledge that Ukrainians also have some skeletons in their proverbial closet and aren't some angelic civilization with a god-like leader. If we acknowledge this then we can have educated and sober adult discussions instead of juvenile emotional rollercoasters.

Too difficult to read the fifth sentence?

Ukraine like Russia and Poland has a long history of anti-Semitis. Nobody is denying that. For what it's worth, Russia's current anti-semitism is worse, which makes their claimsbeyond absurd.

OMG, you still don't get it. It's not about Russia's claims (nobody is debating that Russia is taking advantage). it's about optics, how international community views presence of a legitimate nazi organization as a government approved armed military force. Has this happened in any other country since WW2? I am sorry if it bothers you when people say that it does take away a bit from the "angelic country under a god-like leader" type of mythology. Russia is doing what Russia is doing whether Azov existed or not, they have their own agenda. It plays into their hands, but it's not like Russia is getting tons of allies because they are "fighting nazis".

[Anonymous]

^^^are you paid by work or by post? You should consider doing an AMA.

[Anonymous]

"angelic country under a god-like leader” -> are you jealous or something? Is Ukraine diverting attention from your country or cause?! Your obsession with Ukraine’s “angelic” image that no one except you expressed is unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"angelic country under a god-like leader” -> are you jealous or something? Is Ukraine diverting attention from your country or cause?! Your obsession with Ukraine’s “angelic” image that no one except you expressed is unhealthy.

You sound like a complete idiot now. You are the one obsessed with "angelic image" to the point that you find it your obligation to destroy every single post that may present Ukraine in less than glorious light. I am not the OP, but clearly any discussion on this topic bothers you immensely. Are you being paid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^are you paid by work or by post? You should consider doing an AMA.

I have the same exact question for you.

[Anonymous]

Russia's team

[Anonymous]

P utin sent hundreds of Wagner Group assassins, headed by Dmitri Utkin, an avowed Naz i who has Reichsadler and SS tattoos, their equipment is enblazoned with alll kinds of Na zi symbols. Pu tin propped up the DPR's most extreme right wing factions and Na zi Sparta Brigade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russia's team

This times a million. Waiting to hear more about optics.

[Anonymous]

Breaking news: some people who are great at killing other people have questionable morals.

Every fighter thinks their cause is just and moral.