Kids who bombed the SAT - getting good college results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the Covid cheating is a major issue.

MANY kids did not cheat <------disclaimer in case this is your kid.

But many did. I know mine did. He did math in a group. He googled homework answers. I am not dumb. His friends all did it.
Their GPAs are really inflated. There are hundreds like him.

Wow, that stinks for all the kids who don't cheat. You just accept this? My kids don't cheat and earn what they get. Your kid is stepping on mine to get ahead when he cheats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hate the game? Definitely.

The problem is that very few kids can get great grades at some very competitive schools without cheating. I got sick of my DC getting crap grades during distance learning and moved DC into my home office so I could monitor them during the school day. I was appalled at all the cheating that is going on. It's actually so normalized that I don't think they even understand that they're out of line. It's different from when I was the smart kid in HS that everyone else cheated off of. Now, it's that they all exchange work with each other, even the smart kids. Granted, DC is at a super competitive HS so it's a different pool of kids than those I went to school with. But, if anything, this seems far worse ethically because these are the "top" kids who are cheating in order to achieve and maintain a high GPA. When I let kids cheat off my homework or exams 30 years ago, all that happened was the kid managed to pass and not flunk out of high school. Nobody was worried about how those kids' GPAs might nudge them out of the top 10% of the class or give them a leg up for college admissions.

At one point in HS my kid was caught cheating on an assignment. We had to go in and meet with the teacher and punish our kid. But what was most upsetting was that when I spoke with DC about why they felt cheating had been necessary, their answer made total sense to me. There is no way that a kid who isn't a genius can keep up with the workload at a school like theirs. These are kids that are eventually passing the AP exams with 4s and 5s, so they aren't dumb. They know the material. But the sheer volume of work is unrealistic and is essentially an invitation to cheat. When the top kids in the class are "sharing" work with one another, everyone else has to do this in order to not fall too far behind and still sleep for at least 6-7 hours a night. It's a huge problem that's entirely created by stupid adults setting "higher" standards. My sibling is a high school teacher in Texas where one's class rank now determines whether you get to go to UT Austin and become a Longhorn. It's become a cat and mouse game with the top kids all devising new tricks to raise their GPA by 0.05 over that of their classmate.

This is a cop out. My kids are in challenging programs and don't cheat. If the work is too much, go to your regular program. If kids are cheating, ask admin to crack down. All these excuses just seek to legitimize cheating. That's not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the Op but this is a thing--even within the "big public schools."

Last year with virtual learning, a lot of kids struggled. Some kids (like mine) got terrile grades. Others (like my kid's friend) got great grades because they CHEATED. Cheating was rampant! And of course, the moms just smile and talk about how wonderfully their kid is doing with virtual learning...

The kids take the SAT and my kid scores a full 200 points higher than these "straight A students."
But because colleges value GPAs higher than standardized test scores, those kids are getting into schools and my kid is being denied.

I’ve heard this too. But one kids friend who cheated his way through sophomore year has to drop multiple classes this year because he couldn’t do the work. He’s going to have limited options with a very weak Jr/Sr course selection and no SAT.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes going to hard private schools is not a good choice; I found out the hard way when I graduated from one has definitely had less college choice than my public school counterparts. Private colleges are more likely to prioritize private high school students and expect you to have the money to full pay.

[Anonymous]

"This is a cop out. My kids are in challenging programs and don't cheat. If the work is too much, go to your regular program. If kids are cheating, ask admin to crack down. All these excuses just seek to legitimize cheating. That's not ok.'

I'm certainly not condoning it.

I'd be careful about insisting that your kids don't cheat, at least if they're "top students" and in challenging programs. You don't know what you don't know. I would have said the same thing until I got the phone call from the school telling me what was going on. We adults have created a sick culture in these competitive high schools. The kids are responding rationally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The public school kids compete against the other public school kids and the private school kids compete against private school kids. But if you are absolutely convinced the world is stacked against private school kids...then do not send your kid to private school.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate the game? Definitely.

The problem is that very few kids can get great grades at some very competitive schools without cheating. I got sick of my DC getting crap grades during distance learning and moved DC into my home office so I could monitor them during the school day. I was appalled at all the cheating that is going on. It's actually so normalized that I don't think they even understand that they're out of line. It's different from when I was the smart kid in HS that everyone else cheated off of. Now, it's that they all exchange work with each other, even the smart kids. Granted, DC is at a super competitive HS so it's a different pool of kids than those I went to school with. But, if anything, this seems far worse ethically because these are the "top" kids who are cheating in order to achieve and maintain a high GPA. When I let kids cheat off my homework or exams 30 years ago, all that happened was the kid managed to pass and not flunk out of high school. Nobody was worried about how those kids' GPAs might nudge them out of the top 10% of the class or give them a leg up for college admissions.

At one point in HS my kid was caught cheating on an assignment. We had to go in and meet with the teacher and punish our kid. But what was most upsetting was that when I spoke with DC about why they felt cheating had been necessary, their answer made total sense to me. There is no way that a kid who isn't a genius can keep up with the workload at a school like theirs. These are kids that are eventually passing the AP exams with 4s and 5s, so they aren't dumb. They know the material. But the sheer volume of work is unrealistic and is essentially an invitation to cheat. When the top kids in the class are "sharing" work with one another, everyone else has to do this in order to not fall too far behind and still sleep for at least 6-7 hours a night. It's a huge problem that's entirely created by stupid adults setting "higher" standards. My sibling is a high school teacher in Texas where one's class rank now determines whether you get to go to UT Austin and become a Longhorn. It's become a cat and mouse game with the top kids all devising new tricks to raise their GPA by 0.05 over that of their classmate.

This is a cop out. My kids are in challenging programs and don't cheat. If the work is too much, go to your regular program. If kids are cheating, ask admin to crack down. All these excuses just seek to legitimize cheating. That's not ok.

The cheating kids are f*cked when they get to college - good chance of being thrown out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This is a cop out. My kids are in challenging programs and don't cheat. If the work is too much, go to your regular program. If kids are cheating, ask admin to crack down. All these excuses just seek to legitimize cheating. That's not ok.'

I'm certainly not condoning it.

I'd be careful about insisting that your kids don't cheat, at least if they're "top students" and in challenging programs. You don't know what you don't know. I would have said the same thing until I got the phone call from the school telling me what was going on. We adults have created a sick culture in these competitive high schools. The kids are responding rationally.

I am careful. I know my kids. They have their fair share of warts. This is not one. You do not know them, so do not comment on what you do not know. Also, stop deflecting, it just adds to the notion that you are somehow defending this. A lot of kids have integrity and don't cheat. Stop legitimizing cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Covid cheating is a major issue.

MANY kids did not cheat <------disclaimer in case this is your kid.

But many did. I know mine did. He did math in a group. He googled homework answers. I am not dumb. His friends all did it.
Their GPAs are really inflated. There are hundreds like him.

What is he planning on doing in college? Cheating? Good luck with that.

+1

Cheating will look great on his record!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting into college is not the same thing as staying in college much less graduating. Unless the colleges are really dumbing down the material I’m not seeing the woefully unqualified lasting very long.

Many are, yes. Have you seen some of the ridiculous majors available now? And, everything is "group projects." You'd have to be a real idiot not to be able to graduate from college with some sort of degree now.

Not at the hard to get into colleges. You can think they are "ridiculous" majors but at a good school they are still hard.

[Anonymous]

"I am careful. I know my kids. They have their fair share of warts. This is not one. You do not know them, so do not comment on what you do not know. Also, stop deflecting, it just adds to the notion that you are somehow defending this. A lot of kids have integrity and don't cheat. Stop legitimizing cheating."

Please point out where PP attempted to legitimize cheating. And provide an example of PP deflecting. Or else just stop trying to pick a fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This is a cop out. My kids are in challenging programs and don't cheat. If the work is too much, go to your regular program. If kids are cheating, ask admin to crack down. All these excuses just seek to legitimize cheating. That's not ok.'

I'm certainly not condoning it.

I'd be careful about insisting that your kids don't cheat, at least if they're "top students" and in challenging programs. You don't know what you don't know. I would have said the same thing until I got the phone call from the school telling me what was going on. We adults have created a sick culture in these competitive high schools. The kids are responding rationally.

They are making a huge mistake. College is a lot of very hard work. Students need to develop successful skills in HS to manage the college load and that most certainly does not include cheating.

They are spending all that time and energy and money in college and will not even be able to master the material? What a waste.

Tell them to take the time and energy wasted on cheating to learn the stuff.

[Anonymous]

Most parents have no idea that their kids are cheating. My son and friends were sharing answers all last year. I only found out it late spring because we had some paining done and he had to share an office with me. The other parents had NO idea. I just had a conversation about this with them (my friends) a year later (assuming they knew what was going on) and they were dumbfounded. This is 5-6 other moms. Unless you're hovering over your kid's shoulder etc you really don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or maybe, because this year is TO, kids with 1100s and their parents decided to skip expensive test prep and multiple tests for a better and then super scored result. Which is fine.

This!

It's totally a selection issue. This person probably would have invested more time and money to increase the 1100 if it wasn't test optional (AND...the reason that isn't equitable is that not all families have the resources to do that).


Also remember that just because a school is highly selective that part of that is because it is very popular and has a lot of applicants competing for slots. It doesn't mean that the school is necessarily "better" than other schools. It also doesn't mean that the "popular" school has a goal of taking the kids with the highest grades and test scores. It just means the school has a larger pool of applicants from which it can choose whichever mix they'd like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most parents have no idea that their kids are cheating. My son and friends were sharing answers all last year. I only found out it late spring because we had some paining done and he had to share an office with me. The other parents had NO idea. I just had a conversation about this with them (my friends) a year later (assuming they knew what was going on) and they were dumbfounded. This is 5-6 other moms. Unless you're hovering over your kid's shoulder etc you really don't know.

But what will he do when he can't get the answers from someone else and has to have learning skills in place to succeed on his own? What is the point?