Stoicism and Jordan Peterson popularity with young men

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of young guys into stoicism and I’m not a fan. Instead of actually dealing with their feelings, emotions, and problems, they just stuff it down and get worse and worse. From my observations they just further isolate themselves, get more depressed, and start searching for answers in more extreme things like drugs, casual sex, isolation, etc.

I think it would be far better for men to embrace the so-called “feminine” aspects of being human - crying, expressing sadness, talking to people, helping others, listening to others, developing deep and loving relationships with both men and women, expressing love, being vulnerable, seeking connection beyond superficial things like sex or just hanging out with the bros.

I'd argue we need more stoicism in society. We are too touchy-feeling to the point that it's starting to become ridiculous. It's the excesses of nihilistic individualism. The lack of structure and declining expectations in the name of "human feelings" and "my truth" and "my emotions" has seen increasing loss of direction and floundering, and I see it everywhere among younger people.

In general we should be aiming for a golden mean but right now the pendulum is too far towards the touchy-feeling passions that any stoicism to nudge the pendulum back to the mean is worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you’ve ever watched Peterson being interviewed or participating in a debate then you’d know he’s sharp as a tack and can back up his ideas with facts. He’s a courageous man who hasn’t shoes away from thorny issues and isn’t afraid of resisting the woke bullshit. I don’t necessarily agree with him on all things but he’s a valuable voice in the discussion. And he makes many people on the ideological left uncomfortable because he lays bare their groupthink idiocy.

I think some of what he says is completely stupid (the characterization of chaos/order thing comes to mind) but some of what he says has value. I suppose I'm on the "left" but I'm not threatened by what he says. Instead, I'd like to think about it and potentially integrate it.

I think more people on the "left" should listen to him with an open mind - without the automatic mindset to find things to refute. It's good to listen to different viewpoints and he's definitly not a stupid person. It's okay to disagree but at least disagree with your own thoughts, not someone else's thoughts. I wouldn't call him anti-feminist either. More like he wants people to stand on their own feet, regardless of how they identify.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure people are using stoicism correctly. It is not losing you voice or staying quiet. It is staying steady no matter what happens. Good, bad , or indifferent. Very Victorian and Greatest Generation.

Not wearing one's heart on one's sleeve.

Silent and strong type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His opinion should not be allowed.

This is exactly the problem with Leftists. Can't handle differing opinions and so they must be cancelled. Grow up

This is a massive problem for the left. If you don’t like what Jordan Peterson says, don’t listen.

Really?

Read this and then tell us if you still agree:

https://humanevents.com/2021/09/28/nearly-25-of-college-students-say-its-acceptable-to-use-violence-to-shut-down-controversial-speakers/

NP. I’m not sure I understand your point with this article. Doesn’t that just confirm what pp said about people on the left not being able to handle hearing opposing viewpoints?

Right? How is it acceptable to use violence to shut down opposing views? I know there is a movement on the left to broadly ban hate speech because the argument is that words can actually cause physical harm, but that comes directly into collision with the first amendment. All it indicates to me is the left is becoming increasingly intolerant and enraptured with safe spaces and so forth. If you want to see how that whole thing played out, historically, look to countries that had mass purges and genocides. This is America friends. We can say what the fk we want here. Sorry you’re offended.

What are you talking about with "broadly banning hate speech?"

Countries that had mass purges and genocides didn't go through that because they restricted hate speech. They had a problem because they let hate speech flourish. Compare democratic Germany's hate speech rules with the hate speech of Nazi Germany.

But the heart of the issue is that violent ideas should not be allowed to go unchecked and sometimes they really shouldn't have a platform. Like, you should not put a flat-earther on a show and just let them spout off their BS. That gives their ideas legitimacy. It's the same with people who have violent ideas. If you have a neo-nazi given the same platform as a Jewish person, you're giving the neo-nazi credibility that is dangerous. I don't think you should suppress opinions you disagree with, but it is fine to suppress opinions that are both wrong and dangerous, like "women should be beaten if they refuse to have sex with you." (And I have heard somebody on a podcast say that and the interviewer responded like "huh, weird, moving on.")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s also an ill-disciplined drug addict who can’t follow any of his own advice or dictats. Why are such a sizable portion of men easy marks for such con artists?

Also, he's not stoic. He's such a whiny snowflake. And he's really not that smart. A lot of the stuff he says relies on junk science or other crap. I mean, he can say whatever he wants, but if someone says they're really into him, I take that as a huge red flag.

[Anonymous]

I think one reason that both Stoicism and Jordan Peterson are popular with young men these days is that they both are telling men that the issues they are having with their own life are within their own control and that they have the power to improve their lives themselves. This is very empowering to men, especially many who feel adrift in the world today.

Jordan Peterson in particular speaks to many men who are just drifting. These men are working dead-end meaningless jobs, they often don't have a wife or kids or even a serious relationship. They feel useless in the world today and don't know what to do about it. Jordan Peterson tells them what to do.

Look at his 12 rules for life as an example. This is how he got his start. Not exactly right wing propaganda. This is straight up good advice for anyone for the most part.

1) Fix your posture
2) Care for yourself the way you care for others
3) Stick with people who want the best for you
4) Improve your own game instead of playing others'
5) Teach your children to abide by society's rules
6) Get your house in order before criticizing others
7) Focus on a higher purpose, not instant gratification
8) Find & live your personal truth
9) Learn to be a good listener
10) Define your problem precisely to make it manageable
11) Accept that inequality exists
12) Take time to appreciate the good things in life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think one reason that both Stoicism and Jordan Peterson are popular with young men these days is that they both are telling men that the issues they are having with their own life are within their own control and that they have the power to improve their lives themselves. This is very empowering to men, especially many who feel adrift in the world today.

Jordan Peterson in particular speaks to many men who are just drifting. These men are working dead-end meaningless jobs, they often don't have a wife or kids or even a serious relationship. They feel useless in the world today and don't know what to do about it. Jordan Peterson tells them what to do.

Look at his 12 rules for life as an example. This is how he got his start. Not exactly right wing propaganda. This is straight up good advice for anyone for the most part.

1) Fix your posture
2) Care for yourself the way you care for others
3) Stick with people who want the best for you
4) Improve your own game instead of playing others'
5) Teach your children to abide by society's rules
6) Get your house in order before criticizing others
7) Focus on a higher purpose, not instant gratification
8) Find & live your personal truth
9) Learn to be a good listener
10) Define your problem precisely to make it manageable
11) Accept that inequality exists
12) Take time to appreciate the good things in life

It's funny that these are his "rules." Because all of the true elites in this country don't follow any of this crap. Look at Trump - do you think he ever followed rules #2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, or 11? Hell no.

Jordan Peterson is interested in forming an obeying army of men who can't think for themselves. All in the name of protecting elite hegemony. It's a great grift, imho. JP himself doesn't follow these "rules."

It's would darkly funny if only so many men were not deadly serious about their love for Jordan Peterson.

[Anonymous]

I’ve never heard of this guy. Is this like Glennon Doyle for men? Why does everyone need a guru (or a, *shudder*, thought-leader) these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one reason that both Stoicism and Jordan Peterson are popular with young men these days is that they both are telling men that the issues they are having with their own life are within their own control and that they have the power to improve their lives themselves. This is very empowering to men, especially many who feel adrift in the world today.

Jordan Peterson in particular speaks to many men who are just drifting. These men are working dead-end meaningless jobs, they often don't have a wife or kids or even a serious relationship. They feel useless in the world today and don't know what to do about it. Jordan Peterson tells them what to do.

Look at his 12 rules for life as an example. This is how he got his start. Not exactly right wing propaganda. This is straight up good advice for anyone for the most part.

1) Fix your posture
2) Care for yourself the way you care for others
3) Stick with people who want the best for you
4) Improve your own game instead of playing others'
5) Teach your children to abide by society's rules
6) Get your house in order before criticizing others
7) Focus on a higher purpose, not instant gratification
8) Find & live your personal truth
9) Learn to be a good listener
10) Define your problem precisely to make it manageable
11) Accept that inequality exists
12) Take time to appreciate the good things in life

It's funny that these are his "rules." Because all of the true elites in this country don't follow any of this crap. Look at Trump - do you think he ever followed rules #2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, or 11? Hell no.

Jordan Peterson is interested in forming an obeying army of men who can't think for themselves. All in the name of protecting elite hegemony. It's a great grift, imho. JP himself doesn't follow these "rules."

It's would darkly funny if only so many men were not deadly serious about their love for Jordan Peterson.

So if you object to these “rules” what do you want to replace them with? What guidance do you think is appropriate for young men today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of this guy. Is this like Glennon Doyle for men? Why does everyone need a guru (or a, *shudder*, thought-leader) these days?

Great analogy. The difference is that Jordan Peterson is right-adjacent. He's sort of a gateway to more hard-right ideologies, if you want to follow his philosophy to its natural conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one reason that both Stoicism and Jordan Peterson are popular with young men these days is that they both are telling men that the issues they are having with their own life are within their own control and that they have the power to improve their lives themselves. This is very empowering to men, especially many who feel adrift in the world today.

Jordan Peterson in particular speaks to many men who are just drifting. These men are working dead-end meaningless jobs, they often don't have a wife or kids or even a serious relationship. They feel useless in the world today and don't know what to do about it. Jordan Peterson tells them what to do.

Look at his 12 rules for life as an example. This is how he got his start. Not exactly right wing propaganda. This is straight up good advice for anyone for the most part.

1) Fix your posture
2) Care for yourself the way you care for others
3) Stick with people who want the best for you
4) Improve your own game instead of playing others'
5) Teach your children to abide by society's rules
6) Get your house in order before criticizing others
7) Focus on a higher purpose, not instant gratification
8) Find & live your personal truth
9) Learn to be a good listener
10) Define your problem precisely to make it manageable
11) Accept that inequality exists
12) Take time to appreciate the good things in life

It's funny that these are his "rules." Because all of the true elites in this country don't follow any of this crap. Look at Trump - do you think he ever followed rules #2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, or 11? Hell no.

Jordan Peterson is interested in forming an obeying army of men who can't think for themselves. All in the name of protecting elite hegemony. It's a great grift, imho. JP himself doesn't follow these "rules."

It's would darkly funny if only so many men were not deadly serious about their love for Jordan Peterson.

Instead of randomly bringing up Trump or the idea of an "army of men," what are you teaching your children that's opposite of these 12 rules?

Don't be a good listener? Don't live your personal truth? Do focus on instant gratification?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His opinion should not be allowed.

This is exactly the problem with Leftists. Can't handle differing opinions and so they must be cancelled. Grow up

This is a massive problem for the left. If you don’t like what Jordan Peterson says, don’t listen.

Really?

Read this and then tell us if you still agree:

https://humanevents.com/2021/09/28/nearly-25-of-college-students-say-its-acceptable-to-use-violence-to-shut-down-controversial-speakers/

NP. I’m not sure I understand your point with this article. Doesn’t that just confirm what pp said about people on the left not being able to handle hearing opposing viewpoints?

Right? How is it acceptable to use violence to shut down opposing views? I know there is a movement on the left to broadly ban hate speech because the argument is that words can actually cause physical harm, but that comes directly into collision with the first amendment. All it indicates to me is the left is becoming increasingly intolerant and enraptured with safe spaces and so forth. If you want to see how that whole thing played out, historically, look to countries that had mass purges and genocides. This is America friends. We can say what the fk we want here. Sorry you’re offended.

What are you talking about with "broadly banning hate speech?"

Countries that had mass purges and genocides didn't go through that because they restricted hate speech. They had a problem because they let hate speech flourish. Compare democratic Germany's hate speech rules with the hate speech of Nazi Germany.

But the heart of the issue is that violent ideas should not be allowed to go unchecked and sometimes they really shouldn't have a platform. Like, you should not put a flat-earther on a show and just let them spout off their BS. That gives their ideas legitimacy. It's the same with people who have violent ideas. If you have a neo-nazi given the same platform as a Jewish person, you're giving the neo-nazi credibility that is dangerous. I don't think you should suppress opinions you disagree with, but it is fine to suppress opinions that are both wrong and dangerous, like "women should be beaten if they refuse to have sex with you." (And I have heard somebody on a podcast say that and the interviewer responded like "huh, weird, moving on.")

What I’m talking about is the kind of speech policing the left is doing to sentences like “America is a melting pot” or “being punctual is racist”….there is this massive shift, employing post-modern philosophy on anti-racism, to squelch common speech. Like how the fk is it racist to say America is a melting pot? I understand in academic professors are now deathly afraid of saying the wrong thing, or anything too edgy, for fear of retribution from school administrators. This is for literally doing things like pronouncing a common Chinese word in class that offended some students: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/09/08/professor-suspended-saying-chinese-word-sounds-english-slur

Or questioning a Coca Cola presentation that said “be less white.”

Basically the left is trying to reinvent speech but put Nerf like protections on things that aren’t offensive. People are tired of this pc acolytes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of this guy. Is this like Glennon Doyle for men? Why does everyone need a guru (or a, *shudder*, thought-leader) these days?

Great analogy. The difference is that Jordan Peterson is right-adjacent. He's sort of a gateway to more hard-right ideologies, if you want to follow his philosophy to its natural conclusions.

Curious what you see those to be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s also an ill-disciplined drug addict who can’t follow any of his own advice or dictats. Why are such a sizable portion of men easy marks for such con artists?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one reason that both Stoicism and Jordan Peterson are popular with young men these days is that they both are telling men that the issues they are having with their own life are within their own control and that they have the power to improve their lives themselves. This is very empowering to men, especially many who feel adrift in the world today.

Jordan Peterson in particular speaks to many men who are just drifting. These men are working dead-end meaningless jobs, they often don't have a wife or kids or even a serious relationship. They feel useless in the world today and don't know what to do about it. Jordan Peterson tells them what to do.

Look at his 12 rules for life as an example. This is how he got his start. Not exactly right wing propaganda. This is straight up good advice for anyone for the most part.

1) Fix your posture
2) Care for yourself the way you care for others
3) Stick with people who want the best for you
4) Improve your own game instead of playing others'
5) Teach your children to abide by society's rules
6) Get your house in order before criticizing others
7) Focus on a higher purpose, not instant gratification
8) Find & live your personal truth
9) Learn to be a good listener
10) Define your problem precisely to make it manageable
11) Accept that inequality exists
12) Take time to appreciate the good things in life

It's funny that these are his "rules." Because all of the true elites in this country don't follow any of this crap. Look at Trump - do you think he ever followed rules #2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, or 11? Hell no.

Jordan Peterson is interested in forming an obeying army of men who can't think for themselves. All in the name of protecting elite hegemony. It's a great grift, imho. JP himself doesn't follow these "rules."

It's would darkly funny if only so many men were not deadly serious about their love for Jordan Peterson.

The promise of Jordan Peterson isn't that if you follow his rules you will be an elite, it is that you can improve your own life from what it is now. I think that a lot of the problem with our elites today is that they don't follow these rules. Trump is a prime example, he is a terrible person. Even Trump could improve his own life if he had followed some of this advice. He could have been a better president, father, businessman and so on.