Does it benefit a doctor's child who's destined to become an MD to pay $$$ for Hopkins or Wash U?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at admissions data for Wash U Medical School, there's surprisingly few students coming from Wash U undergrad.

That said, Wash U is doing a great job of recruiting students from low-income households (e.g. flying them out for a visit for free) and offering them generous aid

I don't know why you'd look at Wash U Medical School. Because when you look at Wash U's undergrads, something like 25 to 30% of each class applies to medical school. This is AAMC publicly avail data. It's pretty insane. If they're not going to Wash U Medical School it's probably just because they don't want to spend 8 years in St. Louis.

Washington University is usually ranked in the top 10-15 medical schools in the country. They have their pick of some of the best applicants in the country. Great professional programs (law, medicine) typically limit how many of their own undergrads they take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, not going to JMU for free, just at in-state tuition rates.

Oh yes, definitely a lot of red flags with the neighbor kid. I too have serious doubts about this kid, for a lot of reasons.

I am not that enthusiastic about JMU. However, I don't discount it as a "degree mill." It's what is available to NOVA folks since UVA/VT/W&M is becoming less available to us.

BTW, JMU said that they had 12 graduates entering MD programs in 2016 (which is what I could find via Google):

So it's not 5 kids per year. And during the 2002-2012 period, JMU grads went to the likes of Yale, UVA, Tufts, BU, UCLA, Georgetown, GWU. Some other schools that aren't name brand. But they are still medical schools.

5 to 12 is about what I'd assume. That's out of 22,000 undergraduates. And how many of the 5 to 12 are URMs and first generation college students, i.e. highly hooked medical school applicants. Probably all of them.

Medical schools are stat driven for admissions. You need a high MCAT and GPA to be admitted. JMU is simply going to have a lower percentage of undergraduate kids that get high stats compared to schools like UVA and W&M, which will result in fewer applying and fewer getting admitted. In a recent year, JMU had 67 apply to medical school vs 155 for W&M and 393 for UVA. So over 9% of each class is applying to medical school at UVA and W&M vs. about 1.3% at JMU. (In comparison, JHU had 455 applying, which is about 29% or a graduating class.) According to the URL shared for JMU pre-med, the acceptance rate is about 44% for Allopathic medical schools for JMU over the 2002-2010 period. According to their pre-med websites, the recent ranges for UVA has been 60%-52% acceptance rate per year (to at least one medical school) and W&M 65%-50%. (In comparison, Penn reported 80% acceptance in 2020.)

But the rub is better students tend to attend better schools, so this is simply to be expected. I suspect the actual value of the school in the acceptance equation is limited.

https://www.aamc.org/media/9636/download

https://www.jmu.edu/iihhs/_files/MDaccept02.pdf

If your neighbors could only see this disrespectful dialogue about their child. Pretty pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, not going to JMU for free, just at in-state tuition rates.

Oh yes, definitely a lot of red flags with the neighbor kid. I too have serious doubts about this kid, for a lot of reasons.

I am not that enthusiastic about JMU. However, I don't discount it as a "degree mill." It's what is available to NOVA folks since UVA/VT/W&M is becoming less available to us.

BTW, JMU said that they had 12 graduates entering MD programs in 2016 (which is what I could find via Google):

So it's not 5 kids per year. And during the 2002-2012 period, JMU grads went to the likes of Yale, UVA, Tufts, BU, UCLA, Georgetown, GWU. Some other schools that aren't name brand. But they are still medical schools.

5 to 12 is about what I'd assume. That's out of 22,000 undergraduates. And how many of the 5 to 12 are URMs and first generation college students, i.e. highly hooked medical school applicants. Probably all of them.

Medical schools are stat driven for admissions. You need a high MCAT and GPA to be admitted. JMU is simply going to have a lower percentage of undergraduate kids that get high stats compared to schools like UVA and W&M, which will result in fewer applying and fewer getting admitted. In a recent year, JMU had 67 apply to medical school vs 155 for W&M and 393 for UVA. So over 9% of each class is applying to medical school at UVA and W&M vs. about 1.3% at JMU. (In comparison, JHU had 455 applying, which is about 29% or a graduating class.) According to the URL shared for JMU pre-med, the acceptance rate is about 44% for Allopathic medical schools for JMU over the 2002-2010 period. According to their pre-med websites, the recent ranges for UVA has been 60%-52% acceptance rate per year (to at least one medical school) and W&M 65%-50%. (In comparison, Penn reported 80% acceptance in 2020.)

But the rub is better students tend to attend better schools, so this is simply to be expected. I suspect the actual value of the school in the acceptance equation is limited.

https://www.aamc.org/media/9636/download

https://www.jmu.edu/iihhs/_files/MDaccept02.pdf

I don't think the school makes that much difference. If a kid with 75th percentile stats for UVA or W&M chose to go to JMU instead, their odds of gaining admission to medical school would be about the same as if they had gone to UVA or W&M.

[Anonymous]

If they're a top kid at Hopkins that's going to open a lot of doors because of the amazing opportunities to do research and volunteer at the med school campus and within Baltimore. It will help them because it's known as a rigorous school

It's high risk, high reward if you make it out unscathed

Former Hopkins student

[Anonymous]

Hopkins yes, WashU no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they're a top kid at Hopkins that's going to open a lot of doors because of the amazing opportunities to do research and volunteer at the med school campus and within Baltimore. It will help them because it's known as a rigorous school

It's high risk, high reward if you make it out unscathed

Former Hopkins student

Does Hopkins have a higher med school acceptance rate compared to similarly selective schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they're a top kid at Hopkins that's going to open a lot of doors because of the amazing opportunities to do research and volunteer at the med school campus and within Baltimore. It will help them because it's known as a rigorous school

It's high risk, high reward if you make it out unscathed

Former Hopkins student

Does Hopkins have a higher med school acceptance rate compared to similarly selective schools?

I don't think there is any evidence to support that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins yes, Wash U no. Nothing special about Wash U.

Wash U has lots of $$$ and the administration will spend tons of money to improve its departments and national standing. It's Ivy-equivalent but JHU isn't. The students are hyper-competitive, has no school spirit or whatsoever. Everyone who went to JHU hated the school, but not WashU. It's like the Princeton of the midwest and is situated in a much more pleasant area of STL.

Hopkins seems forever crippled by its old reputation as a place without any fun, which it did deserve in the past, but the school is changing. Substantial amounts have been poured into enhancing the undergraduate experience as well as the nearby Charles Village "college town." It's quite different from 20 years ago. And Homewood is a lovely campus and does abut some gorgeous neighborhoods.

-- poster whose father was a Hopkins professor.

Ignore the PP, she's either a deluded WashU booster or a poster who's been trolling WashU boosters on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the kid's competitiveness and personality. I wouldn't push a timid daughter into a ruthless shark infested pre-med college. But an elbowy super competitive son? Sure, if that's what he wanted.

[Anonymous]

Medical school look at GPA, Coursework and MCATs. Undergraduate school make almost zero difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins yes, WashU no.

agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I am only going by what the parents say. His school does not have AP courses, but the parents said his SATs were in the high 1400s.

Agreed, actions speak louder than words. Will this kid do the work at JMU? Will he get distracted off the pre-med path? Who knows? Motivation and work ethic are probably more important to becoming an MD, or achieving in many professions. It will probably be no different for this kid. I have my doubts about him but I have seen many people go beyond the initial expectations placed on them by their friends and family.

DCUM is a place for spitballing, so we are all postulating here. My point was that are indeed some parents (including MDs) who try to plan out things in this manner to achieve the desired result effectively. Whether this actually works is a different story.

If OP thinks the kid will veer off medicine, would focus on the quality of the school. If they are certain about medicine, they might be at an advantage to go to a lesser tier school - higher GPA and more opportunities to shine as a pre med student in a program that’s not so cut throat.

[Anonymous]

How do they know they already are getting a full scholarship? that information doesn't come out for a few months.

if he is a doctor-- assume they have money. Doctors make the big bucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In-laws, wife works part-time, husband is an MD. A super genuine and good family. They are upper middle class but I don't know if they're "rich." He's a first generation MD.

Their kids are great students and obsessed with becoming doctors like dad. It's obvious they are one of those families that somehow grooms their kids to become doctors. The oldest is a senior and has a free 100% full scholarship on the table to a regional hometown private college where they live (not DMV). Mom shared the other few colleges the oldest is applying to are Wash U, Hopkins, and Vanderbilt.

I'm just wondering the analysis $75K x 4 = $300K for undergrad vs. literally $0? I safely assume the teen will have a far better chance at a near 4.0 GPA at the regional college. That said, of course the competitiveness, experiences, and the all new friend group (and potential spouse, if we're being frank) you meet at a place like Wash U has value, too – but how much (extra) value?

I went to Wash. U. and took a premed weed-out class there. I got weeded out of my intended, non-premed major, but that was because I was cocky and lazy. The weed-out class itself was a big, pleasant class. I never really felt as if I was competing against the other students.

The premeds I knew who went to medical school were lovely people. So, if it’s really true that premeds at Johns Hopkins premeds are unpleasant, maybe that would be a reason to prefer Wash. U. over Johns Hopkins.

As for choosing between the local school and Wash. U.: If you have a kid who (after adjustments for socioeconomic status, test phobia, IQ test quality, weak testers, etc.) is the kind of kid who scores about 164 or up on a good IQ test, that kid really needs a T20, or the equivalent top liberal arts college program, or an equivalent state flagship honors program, because, unless that kid went to Stuyvesant or Thomas Jefferson, going to a top college is the only hope the kid will have of hanging out with many other equally bright kids.

The smartest kids at Wash. U. or Johns Hopkins are to a regular local college student what a regular local college student is to a kid in classes for children with severe learning disabilities.

If you had a kid with severe special disabilities, you’d hit up relatives and borrow what you could to give that kid a shot at a normal life.

I think parents should do the same for kids who are at the 164+ IQ level. If they’re in a program at the Wash. U. level or higher, maybe 5 percent to 10 percent of the kids they meet will be of comparable intelligence. They might be a little lonely even there, but at least they can go for four years without having to dumb down everything they say. They can experience the joy of having to work a little to get a good grade. I think it’s cruel for parents who could send a kid like that to a very selective school without big problems to try to save money by not doing that. Why do you have money if not to be able to give your kids a chance to flourish?

For regular bright kids, the local college might work just as well. The classes might not be quite the same, but, if the classes help kids like yours get good MCAT scores, they’re good enough. Regular great bright kids might get more faculty love, and regular bright students might have more time and energy for application-enhancing activities.

Seek therapy.

Seriously, as another Wash U alum, please don’t post stuff like this. You make us all look bad.

That said- to the OP, I came from a solidly middle class (REAL, middle America middle class, not DCUM middle class) family. My siblings went to state schools with full rides. My experience at Wash U in terms of the opportunities I got, the support, and the level of academic rigor was much better than my siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In-laws, wife works part-time, husband is an MD. A super genuine and good family. They are upper middle class but I don't know if they're "rich." He's a first generation MD.

Their kids are great students and obsessed with becoming doctors like dad. It's obvious they are one of those families that somehow grooms their kids to become doctors. The oldest is a senior and has a free 100% full scholarship on the table to a regional hometown private college where they live (not DMV). Mom shared the other few colleges the oldest is applying to are Wash U, Hopkins, and Vanderbilt.

I'm just wondering the analysis $75K x 4 = $300K for undergrad vs. literally $0? I safely assume the teen will have a far better chance at a near 4.0 GPA at the regional college. That said, of course the competitiveness, experiences, and the all new friend group (and potential spouse, if we're being frank) you meet at a place like Wash U has value, too – but how much (extra) value?

I went to Wash. U. and took a premed weed-out class there. I got weeded out of my intended, non-premed major, but that was because I was cocky and lazy. The weed-out class itself was a big, pleasant class. I never really felt as if I was competing against the other students.

The premeds I knew who went to medical school were lovely people. So, if it’s really true that premeds at Johns Hopkins premeds are unpleasant, maybe that would be a reason to prefer Wash. U. over Johns Hopkins.

As for choosing between the local school and Wash. U.: If you have a kid who (after adjustments for socioeconomic status, test phobia, IQ test quality, weak testers, etc.) is the kind of kid who scores about 164 or up on a good IQ test, that kid really needs a T20, or the equivalent top liberal arts college program, or an equivalent state flagship honors program, because, unless that kid went to Stuyvesant or Thomas Jefferson, going to a top college is the only hope the kid will have of hanging out with many other equally bright kids.

The smartest kids at Wash. U. or Johns Hopkins are to a regular local college student what a regular local college student is to a kid in classes for children with severe learning disabilities.

If you had a kid with severe special disabilities, you’d hit up relatives and borrow what you could to give that kid a shot at a normal life.

I think parents should do the same for kids who are at the 164+ IQ level. If they’re in a program at the Wash. U. level or higher, maybe 5 percent to 10 percent of the kids they meet will be of comparable intelligence. They might be a little lonely even there, but at least they can go for four years without having to dumb down everything they say. They can experience the joy of having to work a little to get a good grade. I think it’s cruel for parents who could send a kid like that to a very selective school without big problems to try to save money by not doing that. Why do you have money if not to be able to give your kids a chance to flourish?

For regular bright kids, the local college might work just as well. The classes might not be quite the same, but, if the classes help kids like yours get good MCAT scores, they’re good enough. Regular great bright kids might get more faculty love, and regular bright students might have more time and energy for application-enhancing activities.

Seek therapy.

Seriously, as another Wash U alum, please don’t post stuff like this. You make us all look bad.

That said- to the OP, I came from a solidly middle class (REAL, middle America middle class, not DCUM middle class) family. My siblings went to state schools with full rides. My experience at Wash U in terms of the opportunities I got, the support, and the level of academic rigor was much better than my siblings.

WashU has middle class families? Learn something new everyday