Has anyone found a vet that isn't a money making machine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated in recent threads about veterinary care, please be mindful that those working in the veterinary profession are under tremendous stress, especially right now. What you view as evidence that a practice is a "money making machine" might simply reflect higher standards to at least offer every possible diagnostic test and treatment for your pet. More people have pets, their pets are living longer, and people are willing to do more and spend more on their pets' health and to prolong their lives. For every person who gets angry and leaves a practice for promoting "unnecessary" or expensive tests, there are others who will complain that a veterinary didn't do more to recommend and advocate for more extensive diagnostics and treatment. Client financial realities interfere with veterinarians' ability to provide the best possible care, yet clients blame veterinarians for not doing more to save their pets. Burnout and compassion fatigue are common.

By all means, find a practice with prices and business practices that work for you. That's your right as a consumer. However, exercise some compassion before judging the profession, including both veterinarians, technicians, and other staff, because they are under incredible stress.

Nope. It’s a very low-stress profession. No one sues you like Ob/gyn’s and no one know if you do a terrible job drawing blood or performing surgery. I used to do dog and cat surgeries in high school - the vet said the animals would never be able to tell their owner who did the surgery but you can be sure the owners paid full price!

I went into medicine, have a real job with real standards and real stress. Being a vet is a joke career.

AYFKM.

https://www.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2021/05/26/alarming-suicide-rates-reflective-stresses-felt-veterinarians/7361193002/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have had several dogs. I notice every vet has said they have a "heart murmur." Diagnostic tests needed, pills etc.

No different than going to your auto mechanic for inspection test and finding your tail light need replacement.

I wouldn't trust any of them

What breed of dog? Some breeds are extremely prone to valvular disease.

I have owned 5 dogs and never been told one had a heart murmur. That isn’t a thing.

Try a quick Google. https://www.merckvetmanual.com/circulatory-system/congenital-and-inherited-anomalies-of-the-cardiovascular-system/mitral-valve-dysplasia-in-animals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated in recent threads about veterinary care, please be mindful that those working in the veterinary profession are under tremendous stress, especially right now. What you view as evidence that a practice is a "money making machine" might simply reflect higher standards to at least offer every possible diagnostic test and treatment for your pet. More people have pets, their pets are living longer, and people are willing to do more and spend more on their pets' health and to prolong their lives. For every person who gets angry and leaves a practice for promoting "unnecessary" or expensive tests, there are others who will complain that a veterinary didn't do more to recommend and advocate for more extensive diagnostics and treatment. Client financial realities interfere with veterinarians' ability to provide the best possible care, yet clients blame veterinarians for not doing more to save their pets. Burnout and compassion fatigue are common.

By all means, find a practice with prices and business practices that work for you. That's your right as a consumer. However, exercise some compassion before judging the profession, including both veterinarians, technicians, and other staff, because they are under incredible stress.

Nope. It’s a very low-stress profession. No one sues you like Ob/gyn’s and no one know if you do a terrible job drawing blood or performing surgery. I used to do dog and cat surgeries in high school - the vet said the animals would never be able to tell their owner who did the surgery but you can be sure the owners paid full price!

I went into medicine, have a real job with real standards and real stress. Being a vet is a joke career.

I don't know how long ago your high school experience with the veterinary practice was, but people not only file professional complaints against veterinarians all the time, but they also trash veterinary professionals regularly on social media. That's where much of the stress comes from. In addition, human medical professionals are never called upon by their patients to perform surgeries or provide other services for free. They fight with insurance companies, but don't try to pressure doctors into working for free.

Veterinarians have the additional challenge that their patients can't speak for themselves. They have to balance client relationships while acting in the best interest of their animal patients.

Yeah sounds like Mr "I went into medicine" went to HS many many years ago. Things have changed since the 80s.

And you want to talk about stressful- try examining a 2year old Thoroughbred worth millions of dollars. Owned by either the mom or a Saudi prince. If the horse doesn't kick your head in....

yeah, it's tough balancing pumping them up with enough drug to preform and having them die on the track

Race horses can't be drugged. They do urine tests after the race. It's extremely strict. One trainer got in trouble for using a dermatologic spray that contained corticosteroids.

They certainly can and regularly are. Many drugs are legal in racing, and so common as to be universal. Phenylbutazone, or "bute", for example, is an anti-inflammatory that is super common in the equine world, and widely prescribed by vets as a painkiller for the wear and tear young horses forced to run hard from a standstill often suffer.

Source: I grew up on a horse farm that regularly bought and rehabilitated/retrained young Thoroughbreds from the track.

You should also do a quick Google. Bute has a 48 hour withdrawal time- you have to STOP giving them Bute and most other NSAIDs 48 hours before a race. No idea how long ago you "grew up on a farm" but things change, honey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated in recent threads about veterinary care, please be mindful that those working in the veterinary profession are under tremendous stress, especially right now. What you view as evidence that a practice is a "money making machine" might simply reflect higher standards to at least offer every possible diagnostic test and treatment for your pet. More people have pets, their pets are living longer, and people are willing to do more and spend more on their pets' health and to prolong their lives. For every person who gets angry and leaves a practice for promoting "unnecessary" or expensive tests, there are others who will complain that a veterinary didn't do more to recommend and advocate for more extensive diagnostics and treatment. Client financial realities interfere with veterinarians' ability to provide the best possible care, yet clients blame veterinarians for not doing more to save their pets. Burnout and compassion fatigue are common.

By all means, find a practice with prices and business practices that work for you. That's your right as a consumer. However, exercise some compassion before judging the profession, including both veterinarians, technicians, and other staff, because they are under incredible stress.

Nope. It’s a very low-stress profession. No one sues you like Ob/gyn’s and no one know if you do a terrible job drawing blood or performing surgery. I used to do dog and cat surgeries in high school - the vet said the animals would never be able to tell their owner who did the surgery but you can be sure the owners paid full price!

I went into medicine, have a real job with real standards and real stress. Being a vet is a joke career.

I don't know how long ago your high school experience with the veterinary practice was, but people not only file professional complaints against veterinarians all the time, but they also trash veterinary professionals regularly on social media. That's where much of the stress comes from. In addition, human medical professionals are never called upon by their patients to perform surgeries or provide other services for free. They fight with insurance companies, but don't try to pressure doctors into working for free.

Veterinarians have the additional challenge that their patients can't speak for themselves. They have to balance client relationships while acting in the best interest of their animal patients.

Yeah sounds like Mr "I went into medicine" went to HS many many years ago. Things have changed since the 80s.

And you want to talk about stressful- try examining a 2year old Thoroughbred worth millions of dollars. Owned by either the mom or a Saudi prince. If the horse doesn't kick your head in....

yeah, it's tough balancing pumping them up with enough drug to preform and having them die on the track

Race horses can't be drugged. They do urine tests after the race. It's extremely strict. One trainer got in trouble for using a dermatologic spray that contained corticosteroids.

They certainly can and regularly are. Many drugs are legal in racing, and so common as to be universal. Phenylbutazone, or "bute", for example, is an anti-inflammatory that is super common in the equine world, and widely prescribed by vets as a painkiller for the wear and tear young horses forced to run hard from a standstill often suffer.

Source: I grew up on a horse farm that regularly bought and rehabilitated/retrained young Thoroughbreds from the track.

Not to mention the Lasix debacle. Most horses are on a series of approved meds (there are like 30 of them).

Lasix is being phased out. This year's Kentucky Derby was run without it.

https://apnews.com/article/ny-state-wire-kentucky-derby-kentucky-sports-north-america-0bf7611920509f9a46f1004bee08e7e5

[Anonymous]

Arlington Animal Hospital-Dr. Jones is amazing.

[Anonymous]

As a vet practice owner, I probably shouldn't even get on this thread and debate with the crazy. However, veterinarians have the same equipment as your human doc, have the same meds, spent the same amount of time in school, same school debt, typically make significantly less...yet everyone expects us to do major surgery for $100. If you can't afford it, you should reconsider having pets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have had several dogs. I notice every vet has said they have a "heart murmur." Diagnostic tests needed, pills etc.

No different than going to your auto mechanic for inspection test and finding your tail light need replacement.

I wouldn't trust any of them

What breed of dog? Some breeds are extremely prone to valvular disease.

I have owned 5 dogs and never been told one had a heart murmur. That isn’t a thing.

Try a quick Google. https://www.merckvetmanual.com/circulatory-system/congenital-and-inherited-anomalies-of-the-cardiovascular-system/mitral-valve-dysplasia-in-animals

No, I am saying that vets diagnosing every dog with a heart murmur is not a regular scam to get $$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated in recent threads about veterinary care, please be mindful that those working in the veterinary profession are under tremendous stress, especially right now. What you view as evidence that a practice is a "money making machine" might simply reflect higher standards to at least offer every possible diagnostic test and treatment for your pet. More people have pets, their pets are living longer, and people are willing to do more and spend more on their pets' health and to prolong their lives. For every person who gets angry and leaves a practice for promoting "unnecessary" or expensive tests, there are others who will complain that a veterinary didn't do more to recommend and advocate for more extensive diagnostics and treatment. Client financial realities interfere with veterinarians' ability to provide the best possible care, yet clients blame veterinarians for not doing more to save their pets. Burnout and compassion fatigue are common.

By all means, find a practice with prices and business practices that work for you. That's your right as a consumer. However, exercise some compassion before judging the profession, including both veterinarians, technicians, and other staff, because they are under incredible stress.

Nope. It’s a very low-stress profession. No one sues you like Ob/gyn’s and no one know if you do a terrible job drawing blood or performing surgery. I used to do dog and cat surgeries in high school - the vet said the animals would never be able to tell their owner who did the surgery but you can be sure the owners paid full price!

I went into medicine, have a real job with real standards and real stress. Being a vet is a joke career.

I don't know how long ago your high school experience with the veterinary practice was, but people not only file professional complaints against veterinarians all the time, but they also trash veterinary professionals regularly on social media. That's where much of the stress comes from. In addition, human medical professionals are never called upon by their patients to perform surgeries or provide other services for free. They fight with insurance companies, but don't try to pressure doctors into working for free.

Veterinarians have the additional challenge that their patients can't speak for themselves. They have to balance client relationships while acting in the best interest of their animal patients.

Yeah sounds like Mr "I went into medicine" went to HS many many years ago. Things have changed since the 80s.

And you want to talk about stressful- try examining a 2year old Thoroughbred worth millions of dollars. Owned by either the mom or a Saudi prince. If the horse doesn't kick your head in....

yeah, it's tough balancing pumping them up with enough drug to preform and having them die on the track

Race horses can't be drugged. They do urine tests after the race. It's extremely strict. One trainer got in trouble for using a dermatologic spray that contained corticosteroids.

They certainly can and regularly are. Many drugs are legal in racing, and so common as to be universal. Phenylbutazone, or "bute", for example, is an anti-inflammatory that is super common in the equine world, and widely prescribed by vets as a painkiller for the wear and tear young horses forced to run hard from a standstill often suffer.

Source: I grew up on a horse farm that regularly bought and rehabilitated/retrained young Thoroughbreds from the track.

Not to mention the Lasix debacle. Most horses are on a series of approved meds (there are like 30 of them).

Lasix is being phased out. This year's Kentucky Derby was run without it.

https://apnews.com/article/ny-state-wire-kentucky-derby-kentucky-sports-north-america-0bf7611920509f9a46f1004bee08e7e5

I am aware of that, but before you had to go back 25 years to find a Derby winner that didn’t run on Lasix. To claim racing is a completely clean sport is laughable. Source: i letdown and retrain racehorses. I have seen the detox process firsthand, and in some cases it is really ugly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a vet practice owner, I probably shouldn't even get on this thread and debate with the crazy. However, veterinarians have the same equipment as your human doc, have the same meds, spent the same amount of time in school, same school debt, typically make significantly less...yet everyone expects us to do major surgery for $100. If you can't afford it, you should reconsider having pets.

+1 as a pet owner, not a vet. Why does your bloodwork seem like it's cheaper than your pet's - because you have insurance. Why do you pay less out of pocket for your dental cleaning than your pet's - because of dental insurance.

We have used the same practice for decades with multiple animals. They almost always give us at least two options, sort of the full-on expensive option and the wait and see type of option. Recently our dog was having an issue that might have been back-related. The vet said we could do x-rays now (which would be hundreds of dollars), or try a week of anti-inflammatories and see if that helps before heading in for an x-ray. Sure enough, a week later and he is fine.

It is a highly stressful profession. I have multiple friends who are vets, not one of them is anywhere near wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have stated in recent threads about veterinary care, please be mindful that those working in the veterinary profession are under tremendous stress, especially right now. What you view as evidence that a practice is a "money making machine" might simply reflect higher standards to at least offer every possible diagnostic test and treatment for your pet. More people have pets, their pets are living longer, and people are willing to do more and spend more on their pets' health and to prolong their lives. For every person who gets angry and leaves a practice for promoting "unnecessary" or expensive tests, there are others who will complain that a veterinary didn't do more to recommend and advocate for more extensive diagnostics and treatment. Client financial realities interfere with veterinarians' ability to provide the best possible care, yet clients blame veterinarians for not doing more to save their pets. Burnout and compassion fatigue are common.

By all means, find a practice with prices and business practices that work for you. That's your right as a consumer. However, exercise some compassion before judging the profession, including both veterinarians, technicians, and other staff, because they are under incredible stress.

Nope. It’s a very low-stress profession. No one sues you like Ob/gyn’s and no one know if you do a terrible job drawing blood or performing surgery. I used to do dog and cat surgeries in high school - the vet said the animals would never be able to tell their owner who did the surgery but you can be sure the owners paid full price!

I went into medicine, have a real job with real standards and real stress. Being a vet is a joke career.

I don't know how long ago your high school experience with the veterinary practice was, but people not only file professional complaints against veterinarians all the time, but they also trash veterinary professionals regularly on social media. That's where much of the stress comes from. In addition, human medical professionals are never called upon by their patients to perform surgeries or provide other services for free. They fight with insurance companies, but don't try to pressure doctors into working for free.

Veterinarians have the additional challenge that their patients can't speak for themselves. They have to balance client relationships while acting in the best interest of their animal patients.

Yeah sounds like Mr "I went into medicine" went to HS many many years ago. Things have changed since the 80s.

And you want to talk about stressful- try examining a 2year old Thoroughbred worth millions of dollars. Owned by either the mom or a Saudi prince. If the horse doesn't kick your head in....

yeah, it's tough balancing pumping them up with enough drug to preform and having them die on the track

Race horses can't be drugged. They do urine tests after the race. It's extremely strict. One trainer got in trouble for using a dermatologic spray that contained corticosteroids.

They certainly can and regularly are. Many drugs are legal in racing, and so common as to be universal. Phenylbutazone, or "bute", for example, is an anti-inflammatory that is super common in the equine world, and widely prescribed by vets as a painkiller for the wear and tear young horses forced to run hard from a standstill often suffer.

Source: I grew up on a horse farm that regularly bought and rehabilitated/retrained young Thoroughbreds from the track.

Not to mention the Lasix debacle. Most horses are on a series of approved meds (there are like 30 of them).

Lasix is being phased out. This year's Kentucky Derby was run without it.

https://apnews.com/article/ny-state-wire-kentucky-derby-kentucky-sports-north-america-0bf7611920509f9a46f1004bee08e7e5

I am aware of that, but before you had to go back 25 years to find a Derby winner that didn’t run on Lasix. To claim racing is a completely clean sport is laughable. Source: i letdown and retrain racehorses. I have seen the detox process firsthand, and in some cases it is really ugly.

Omg dramatic much. Did the horses get the DTs when they "detoxed" If you saw weird behavior it wasn't from the drugs but from being in a completely different environment, getting turnout etc.

Horses all over the world take NSAIDs. Calm down. And no one said it's "a completely clean sport" just that there are rules, drug tests and that things are getting better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a vet practice owner, I probably shouldn't even get on this thread and debate with the crazy. However, veterinarians have the same equipment as your human doc, have the same meds, spent the same amount of time in school, same school debt, typically make significantly less...yet everyone expects us to do major surgery for $100. If you can't afford it, you should reconsider having pets.

Thank you for what you do. Thank you for the long hours of training, the extra time devoted behind the scenes, and for putting up with so much BS.

Thank you.
[/another medical doctor who loves my pets and their vets]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a vet practice owner, I probably shouldn't even get on this thread and debate with the crazy. However, veterinarians have the same equipment as your human doc, have the same meds, spent the same amount of time in school, same school debt, typically make significantly less...yet everyone expects us to do major surgery for $100. If you can't afford it, you should reconsider having pets.

+1 as a pet owner, not a vet. Why does your bloodwork seem like it's cheaper than your pet's - because you have insurance. Why do you pay less out of pocket for your dental cleaning than your pet's - because of dental insurance.

We have used the same practice for decades with multiple animals. They almost always give us at least two options, sort of the full-on expensive option and the wait and see type of option. Recently our dog was having an issue that might have been back-related. The vet said we could do x-rays now (which would be hundreds of dollars), or try a week of anti-inflammatories and see if that helps before heading in for an x-ray. Sure enough, a week later and he is fine.

It is a highly stressful profession. I have multiple friends who are vets, not one of them is anywhere near wealthy.

+2 Another pet owner here. I also always appreciate that my vet gives me a cost estimate BEFORE going forward with treatment so I have a chance to figure out what that would mean and we sort out payment for the full cost (they do offer payment plans) immediately afterwards. None of the stupidity of getting the hospital bill for $200 ibuprofen four months later that comes with human treatment.

If you don't want to/can't pay for your pet's expensive medical care, that's fine, but don't be mean to the vets being upfront about how much treatment costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a vet. He says patients' owners frequently try to wheedle him into doing services for reduced fees (or free). He has owners who throw mini tantrums when they are told the price of a treatment, and sometimes demand to know whether he really cares about animals at all or is only in it "for the money."

He is so stressed and works so hard. The clinic is expensive to run and while he would love to give services for reduced fees, he can't. Besides, he worked hard to complete rigorous medical training and is a professional offering a real specialized service: most people would never dream of trying to talk a medical specialist for humans down to lower fees, or question their intentions in offering a treatment.

Why are doctors for humans somehow considered more ethical and trustworthy than vets? You don't become a vet for the money, because there just isn't that kind of money in it. If someone capable of completing medical training wishes to go for $$$, he/she is more likely to treat humans because that is where you make the kind of high income people seem to think vets achieve.

Anyway, my kid is only in his first year of work and I am shocked at how much role the owners' behavior has on his job satisfaction, and also at how rude and insulting people can be to him when he truly just wants to help the animals. Please be nice to your vet, people. There are no ulterior motives and they aren't making fortunes.

I think the behavior stems from the fact that people know the vet and the clinic do almost everything (testing, pharmacy, surgery etc) in house and it isn't unusual for vets to be a clinic owner where as human doctors tend to not own their own clinics (most are corporate) and there are a lot of separate moving parts (the hospital or clinic gets their fee, the pharmacy gets their fee, the dr. gets their fee) that makes up your bill plus most people have insurance.

[Anonymous]

Look for a vet that owns their own clinic, not a corporate one. I've never scoffed at clinic prices when the vet is also the owner but have absolutely rolled my eyes at clinic prices or their pushiness when it was corporate. I brought my then puppy in for a seemingly simple first time urinary tract infection expecting to do a basic urinalysis and meds and go from there is need be. I was presented with a bill which included urinalysis, bloodwork, exploratory surgery and imaging. I told her the surgery was out of my range and I would just do a urinalysis and meds for the time being and she seemed miffed and made it out like I was killing the dog by not doing surgery. The dog was just fine a week later with antibiotics and will be turning 13 soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a vet. He says patients' owners frequently try to wheedle him into doing services for reduced fees (or free). He has owners who throw mini tantrums when they are told the price of a treatment, and sometimes demand to know whether he really cares about animals at all or is only in it "for the money."

He is so stressed and works so hard. The clinic is expensive to run and while he would love to give services for reduced fees, he can't. Besides, he worked hard to complete rigorous medical training and is a professional offering a real specialized service: most people would never dream of trying to talk a medical specialist for humans down to lower fees, or question their intentions in offering a treatment.

Why are doctors for humans somehow considered more ethical and trustworthy than vets? You don't become a vet for the money, because there just isn't that kind of money in it. If someone capable of completing medical training wishes to go for $$$, he/she is more likely to treat humans because that is where you make the kind of high income people seem to think vets achieve.

Anyway, my kid is only in his first year of work and I am shocked at how much role the owners' behavior has on his job satisfaction, and also at how rude and insulting people can be to him when he truly just wants to help the animals. Please be nice to your vet, people. There are no ulterior motives and they aren't making fortunes.

This is so true. My vet advised me not to go into veterinary medicine because the owners so frequently get in the way of the vets' providing quality care. They are also, often, drowning in debt. The rate of burnout and suicide is really bad. And, right now, there's a huge backlog due to Covid restrictions slowing everything down.

My vet's practice, which normally employs eight vets, is down to four, and can't fill the positions, although they pay as well as the market will allow. Vets are going to work in R & D rather than join, or start, a practice.

Be kind to your vets. They aren't in it for the money.