Weinfeld Education Group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP here, THANK YOU! Wow, this is so helpful. I really appreciate your insight. Honestly, the only thing keeping me from sending this is that the school will just say they don’t have enough evidence of adverse educational impact. My son scored at 46% on his recent MAP test (below average but they didn’t think it was that bad) and he got Ps in K+1st and As and Bs last year- but what does that show especially during the pandemic last year. My son has developed coping strategies to “get by” but the private assessment clearly shows how much he struggles with the dyslexia.

Not sure if we should just take the 504 for now. I HATE that the schools/MCPS attitude is to wait for my son to fail. This is so upsetting.

Re adverse impact - you do NOT have to prove adverse impact at this screening stage - merely make a showing that there is/could be. You have done that through below grade level testing, through your feedback on how difficult last year was and how much support you had to provide, etc. At a minimum, the school should have passed you on the screening and moved to a 60 day period where they would collect further data, which includes classroom data.

Also re: adverse imapct. The school is saying that 46%île is average and thus does not show any adverse impact. That is only true if your DC’s IQ (or highest component of the IQ) is also around 46%. BUT, for a kid with an IQ at the 80th percentile, a 46th percentile reading score is actually bad. The school will always try to convince you that a kid has to be scoring “below average” or “borderline” to qualify. That just is not true. “Significant discrepancy” can qualify a kid for an IEP - significant discrepancy between IQ and achievement. My kid has an IQ in the 99th percentile and math reasoning scores in the 90th percentile but math fluency scores in the 40-50th percentile. That is such a significant discrepancy that he qualifies for a math calculator accommodation. He also has dysgraphia with writing scores from the 25-50 percentiles - again he qualifies for an IEP for SLD in writing even though he has never gotten below an A or B in an English class in his life. He has, however repeatedly done poorly on classroom writing assignments, although never below a C because he tries at least. He’s had an IEP since third grade. Only when he got to middle school and had to start taking the PARCC did he start failing the writing portion only of the PARCC.

Don’t second guess yourself about what the school will say - so send it and let them say no a second time. You will be no worse off than you are now. You can still collect more data, or hire an advocate or get a lawyer.

If you accept the 504 plan, make sure to document in writing that you disagree with the IEP decision and that your acceptance of the 504 plan does not constitute agreement to the IEP decision and does not waive your due process rights.

OP again. Wow, this is fascinating… Tha k you. I have so many thoughts and questions. Why did they not offer to collect more data then and just reject the IEP outright?? And part of the reason I was so upset after the eligibility meeting when they declined the IEP is I felt like the private report (23 pages) gave so much detail about how he is struggling and scoring below grade level. I’ve pasted a section of the report with the scores. In the parent questionnaire I explained how much support he needed last year and how we saw him struggle with reading and writing on a daily basis. Another question- as far as the letter you suggested above, is there a reason I should go beyond the school at this point or should I try sending this to the school IEP team first? I’m worried about being adversarial at the get-go and causing them to dig in their heels more. I really don’t want to burn bridges, especially since I also have a kindergartener.

Portion of report (my son just started 3rd grade and had this done a month ago)
- WJ-IV Broad Reading grade equivalent: 2.1
- WJ-IV Broad Written Language gr equivalent: 2.3
- WIAT IV Reading Comprehension: 2.1
- WJ-IV Spelling gr equivalent: 1.9

How could they see this and not at least collect more data? He is scoring below grade level. The report describes

[Anonymous]

*The report describes this in so much detail with tests the psychologist said the school should respect.

[Anonymous]

My personal experience with Weinfeld Education Group a few years ago was not so good. Among other things, the consultant did not want to help us get social/emotional support DC needed and kept telling us the school does not have to provide it. We ended up with a bare bones IEP. Since Weinfeld group was not able to handle an IEP, I doubt they would be able to handle your situation which is more complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My personal experience with Weinfeld Education Group a few years ago was not so good. Among other things, the consultant did not want to help us get social/emotional support DC needed and kept telling us the school does not have to provide it. We ended up with a bare bones IEP. Since Weinfeld group was not able to handle an IEP, I doubt they would be able to handle your situation which is more complex.

Not to defend WEG and I note you said "among other things," but I wonder if they didn't try for social/emotional support because that is apart from academic issues, and much harder/different to advocate for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal experience with Weinfeld Education Group a few years ago was not so good. Among other things, the consultant did not want to help us get social/emotional support DC needed and kept telling us the school does not have to provide it. We ended up with a bare bones IEP. Since Weinfeld group was not able to handle an IEP, I doubt they would be able to handle your situation which is more complex.

Not to defend WEG and I note you said "among other things," but I wonder if they didn't try for social/emotional support because that is apart from academic issues, and much harder/different to advocate for.

also, TBH, MCPs is terrible at it. Several times with WEG the advocate recommended tutoring, which was a recommendation based on their practical knowledge of the situation (which was 100% correct). I wanted the school to do the special instruction as they have a legal obligation to do but practically speaking the school had no effing clue how to.

[Anonymous]

I hate to be the dissenting voice here but is your child actually struggling? What is actually difficult for him? You said it was 9 days into the school year and he is at grade level. You do have to show educational impact and I think the school's argument that it's too early for that is actually legitimate.

My child has dyslexia and did not get an IEP for many years and it was only when that led to behaviors such as not doing work. It would be great to get an IEP for your child but I don't think you have provided enough information that your child needs one. MCPS hates parents who come in with their high priced testing and advocates when their child is not actually struggling but has a diagnosis. You can buy a diagnosis anywhere. I'm not saying that's what you did at all but that is their attitude because this happens so often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be the dissenting voice here but is your child actually struggling? What is actually difficult for him? You said it was 9 days into the school year and he is at grade level. You do have to show educational impact and I think the school's argument that it's too early for that is actually legitimate.

My child has dyslexia and did not get an IEP for many years and it was only when that led to behaviors such as not doing work. It would be great to get an IEP for your child but I don't think you have provided enough information that your child needs one. MCPS hates parents who come in with their high priced testing and advocates when their child is not actually struggling but has a diagnosis. You can buy a diagnosis anywhere. I'm not saying that's what you did at all but that is their attitude because this happens so often.

Ummm, did you not read the thread? Op’s DC has testing that documents DC is behind grade level in reading, writing and spelling. That is documented educational impact.

I’m sorry that you and the system failed your child for so many years, but that is no reason why OP should do or allow the same.

Parents do not have to wait for a child to fail or struggle so much and for so long that they finally refuse to do the work. That runs counter to the entire goal of IDEA which is to be inclusive and give kids with disabilities the benefit of an education that is meaningfully challenging. (https://www.understood.org/articles/en/endrew-f-case-decided-supreme-court-rules-on-how-much-benefit-ieps-must-provide)

OP has given no reason why her child should not be expected to be on grade level in reading; the mere fact that her DC has dyslexia does not mean the child should be consigned to a below grade level performance. Dyslexics are capable of on grade level reading when provided with dyslexic appropriate instruction. She does not have to wait.

[Anonymous]

OP please consult Parents' Place. They give free legal advice to parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be the dissenting voice here but is your child actually struggling? What is actually difficult for him? You said it was 9 days into the school year and he is at grade level. You do have to show educational impact and I think the school's argument that it's too early for that is actually legitimate.

My child has dyslexia and did not get an IEP for many years and it was only when that led to behaviors such as not doing work. It would be great to get an IEP for your child but I don't think you have provided enough information that your child needs one. MCPS hates parents who come in with their high priced testing and advocates when their child is not actually struggling but has a diagnosis. You can buy a diagnosis anywhere. I'm not saying that's what you did at all but that is their attitude because this happens so often.

Ummm, did you not read the thread? Op’s DC has testing that documents DC is behind grade level in reading, writing and spelling. That is documented educational impact.

I’m sorry that you and the system failed your child for so many years, but that is no reason why OP should do or allow the same.

Parents do not have to wait for a child to fail or struggle so much and for so long that they finally refuse to do the work. That runs counter to the entire goal of IDEA which is to be inclusive and give kids with disabilities the benefit of an education that is meaningfully challenging. (https://www.understood.org/articles/en/endrew-f-case-decided-supreme-court-rules-on-how-much-benefit-ieps-must-provide)

OP has given no reason why her child should not be expected to be on grade level in reading; the mere fact that her DC has dyslexia does not mean the child should be consigned to a below grade level performance. Dyslexics are capable of on grade level reading when provided with dyslexic appropriate instruction. She does not have to wait.

Actually OP did not say that. She just says that the testing found that. The school data is that he is on grade level. It's going to be a very hard row to hoe to get an IEP when there is no real educational impact. Maybe there's a post I missed where OP was documenting additional struggles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Resources for any parent - I'm a former MCPS parent - wrightsaw.com and Parents Place of MD. I'm not affiliated with either.
Someone referenced a report where a psychologist or examiner said the child needed an IEP. Examiners should only say that the information on the report should be considered by an IEP team. One examiner alone does not dictate eligibility. An IEP team is the legally designated entity to determine eligibility.
While writing a letter and including "due process" may sound like putting in legal buzz words that may get attention, that doesn't necessarily equate to proceeding to due process and prevailing. I've been in due process in more than one situation. It's routine for their attorneys and they deal with very extreme cases of egregious special education violations such as no services for a student found eligible, etc. I recommend speaking to Parents Place because it can be resolved at the school level it's cheaper and less time consuming. If they return right now to the table for a new IEP meeting they won't have much new data. Adverse educational impact is required and it's early in the year to see that[b]. Good luck to anyone in this process.

I am the poster who drafted the suggested email. I get really frustrated when I see statements like the bold. “Adverse educational impact” is not shown just by what happens in the classroom. B[b]y definition, if you have a kid who has been tested by a tester on nationally normed, standardized testing and that testing shows that the student is reading below grade level - that is demonstrated adverse educational impact (absent some other explanation like below average IQ). And when you have a kid diagnosed with dyslexia who is scoring below grade level even though they have been exposed to the same general reading education as everyone else most of whom are scoring at grade level (because that’s the object of a grade level benchmark - it’s set at a place where almost all children will achieve it at the end of the year), then below grade level IS adverse educational impact.

Also, timeline matters in this situation. If the parents accept the “determination” and wait for time to pass and then make a new request in November, the timeline starts all over again - the school has 30 days to set the first meeting, and another 60 days to collect data and then another 30 days to write the IEP. By contrast, if the parents write a letter that says at the first meeting you, the school system, made a mistake and terminated the process in error, and we, the parents are asking you to either make the determination and move straight into IEP writing OR come back to the table and begin the 60 day evaluation period, the timeline clock has been ticking the whole time, keeping the pressure on the school and pushing the process to be finished more quickly.

I also get frustrated by the notion that it’s too early in the year to see impact. If that were the legally correct way to assess educational impact, no one could get an IEP between September and November. That’s not the intent of the law. Adverse educational impact can and should look back at the last year. Even if there aren’t teacher reports from last year, there are grades, assignments, incidents, email concerns, testing, etc. to look at plus the private standardized testing which objectively assesses below grade level skills.

As to your comments on “due process” as a buzz word - the entire point of referring to due process at this stage is precisely to signal that it’s better for the school to solve this problem or it has the potential to enter into due process, and to frame the issue as a series of vulnerabilities on the school side in due process. Honestly, nobody wants to get to due process - it’s expensive and time-consuming for both sides. But the school is betting that 99% of the people whom it turns away don’t have the knowledge to know they’re getting screwed nor the time, knowledge or money to fix it. And the school system is also betting you will be too afraid that asking for your rights will anger the people upon whom you depend for help. But, that balance shifts somewhat when they know that you are not going to give up and slink away and that you will make specific complaints grounded in the law by name to superiors who are supposed to know and enforce legal obligations.

No, I don't think it's true that you can show adverse educational impact only by testing in the absence of any apparent educational impact in the classroom. It's true that being on grade level doesn't preclude an IEP; but you'd expect to see the impact of the LD in the classroom, not just in the psychologists office. I think the better tactic is likely to look beyond tests and towards functional ability to participate. By way of example, my DS (ASD/ADHD) always does well on tests - they are a strong point for him. He's above or very above district averages in all testing areas. However he will refuse work, be disruptive, and produce basically nothing in writing during seatwork/homework, unless given a LOT of support. And of course any sort of group work is a big problem for him. These are all educational impacts even though he still scores well on tests (both in the psychologists office and at school.) So the idea is to expand "on grade level" beyond tests, because tests are just one small aspect of the curriculum.

I can't really speak to the grades part -- my DS's report cards have always been totally out of sync with his test scores and reports on his school behavior and work, so they don't really relate to accessing the curriculum at all, as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to be the dissenting voice here but is your child actually struggling? What is actually difficult for him? You said it was 9 days into the school year and he is at grade level. You do have to show educational impact and I think the school's argument that it's too early for that is actually legitimate.

My child has dyslexia and did not get an IEP for many years and it was only when that led to behaviors such as not doing work. It would be great to get an IEP for your child but I don't think you have provided enough information that your child needs one. MCPS hates parents who come in with their high priced testing and advocates when their child is not actually struggling but has a diagnosis. You can buy a diagnosis anywhere. I'm not saying that's what you did at all but that is their attitude because this happens so often.

Op here. He is struggling. A few points below:
- The entire reason we got an assessment is because of how much he struggled with reading and writing last year- and I saw it up close since he was doing virtual for most of the year. His written comprehension was extremely poor- he freaked out/had breakdowns whenever he had to write a few sentences and gather evidence from the text they had to read. His spelling was atrocious as well as his handwriting.
- The psychologist conducted 24 quantitative tests to make the dyslexia and ADHD diagnoses. The data showed he is below grade level across the board.
- My son has been able to “get by” with coping mechanisms and he received Ps in K and 1 and As and Bs last year. But honestly I don’t think that says too much during distance learning. The teacher even let them redo work if the first attempt was a poor grade.
- His recent MAP reading at the start of 3rd grade was 46th percentile which is below average.
- The school did not factor in his Map-RF data from K-2 in the ineligibility decision which I find really strange given that it focuses on phonics, fluency, reading comprehension, etc. I got them to send us the data a few days after the meeting and it showed a decline since kindergarten. And his most recent Lexile oral reading measure was 295 and 2nd grade reading materials have measures that are 380-550.

[Anonymous]

It's not about standardized test scores OP. If your child's teacher reports he's okay on grade level then they are not going to give an IEP. Since last year was virtual they did not see the struggles therefore it makes sense to wait. I don't think you have a case but go ahead and use your money to get an IEP.

[Anonymous]

By the way, IDEA says that children are entitled ACCESS to an appropriate education. Not a "meaningfully challenging" one... OP I am a paralegal at an advocacy form and you need to consult an actual lawyer if you want IDEA and your rights as a parent explained to you. Please do not take legal advice from an anonymous poster on an internet forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not about standardized test scores OP. If your child's teacher reports he's okay on grade level then they are not going to give an IEP. Since last year was virtual they did not see the struggles therefore it makes sense to wait. I don't think you have a case but go ahead and use your money to get an IEP.

Pretty much agree with this. Any good educational consultant is going to be at least $2500 and may not even get eligibility, or the IEP will be so minimal that it won't really do anything. I'd spend your money this year on tutoring and see how the year goes. You can always try again next year.

[Anonymous]

Yikes, the butchering of legal terminology in this thread reminds me of those Sovereign Citizen videos on Youtube... and I love the poster saying that the mom of a dyslexic child failed them because she wouldn't abuse the Special Education system! These MCPS Karen parents kill me!