Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric

[Anonymous]

I am so frustrated when people who are pro-vaccine and denigrate people who delay immunizations as anti-science are also using dramatic, non-factual language.

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me. The exemptions in most states have been around since the 60's, so parents making new decisions is not something that occurred solely in the last decade. Plenty of parents questioned the safety of vaccines well, well before Andrew Wakefield.

Measles and pertussis behave in completely different ways, and cannot be controlled in the same way. Whooping cough has NEVER been eradicated in this country, and in fact there is a possibility it is changing its genetic structure: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/pertussis-evolving/
Fully vaccinated individuals can carry pertussis with no clinical signs, and the vaccine is <80% effective (and that is generous).

Also only Measles is primarily dangerous to children. Rubella and mumps are hazardous to pregnant women and teenage/adult men. The MMR is coming under fire for perhaps not protecting against mumps as well as advertised: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

[Anonymous]

What is your point with all of this?

If you're an anti vaxxer you can stay right the fuck away from me and my infant. I can say this politely or use lots of profanity... End result is the same... I don't want to breathe the same air as you and if I find out you're at the same pediatrician or daycare center as me, I'm going to make a big fucking stink.

[Anonymous]

The point is to understand what is actually going on. I absolutely got the Dtap at 2 months...but it is very helpful to understand that the adult standing next to me might be carrying pertussis. It is helpful to know what side effects to watch out for. If I am under the impression that vaccines are 100% safe than I might miss a very important reaction.
If people are crying out that is is "basic science" then try to understand it.

[Anonymous]

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me.

You are correct that it is not accurate to say that vaccines are 100 percent safe. They are not 100 percent safe, but they are very, very safe. We need a very high vaccination rate to provide herd immunity to protect those very few members of our population who cannot safely get vaccines. If you don't have a medical reason that your child can't receive them, you are a free rider taking advantage of other people's assumption of the minute risks associated with vaccination, and I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. I'm interested in changing the law so that you can't continue to reap the benefits of our society, such as attendance at public school, without assuming the minute risk like the rest of us for the benefit of the health of our population.

[Anonymous]

The children I know who got Whooping Chough had been vaccinated. People should understand they are not 100% effective.

[Anonymous]

Of course no one says that vaccines are 100% safe. We do know they don't cause autism, though. And we do know that vaccines are safer than risking a vaccine-preventable disease. So keep your unvaxed, science-illiterate body away from me and my children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me.

No one with any knowledge of science or medicine would say that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects. Vaccines are medicine, and like all medicines, there is a chance, however small, of some side effects. This is why VAERS exists. CDC fact sheets for each vaccine list these side effects, most of which are minor. Fortunately, the vast majority of people do not experience any side effects from vaccines.

It comes down to risks vs. benefits. The benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks. The risk of complications from diseases are higher than the risk of side effects from vaccines. I would hate to be the parent of one of those infants in the Chicago daycare who contracted measles. They were too young to be vaccinated. This is why we need herd immunity, and vaccination is the only way we can maintain herd immunity and protect infants, people with medical/immune system issues that preclude vaccination, the elderly, pregnant women, and other vulnerable members of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The children I know who got Whooping Chough had been vaccinated. People should understand they are not 100% effective.

Does anyone not understand this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated when people who are pro-vaccine and denigrate people who delay immunizations as anti-science are also using dramatic, non-factual language.

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me. The exemptions in most states have been around since the 60's, so parents making new decisions is not something that occurred solely in the last decade. Plenty of parents questioned the safety of vaccines well, well before Andrew Wakefield.

Measles and pertussis behave in completely different ways, and cannot be controlled in the same way. Whooping cough has NEVER been eradicated in this country, and in fact there is a possibility it is changing its genetic structure: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/pertussis-evolving/
Fully vaccinated individuals can carry pertussis with no clinical signs, and the vaccine is <80% effective (and that is generous).

Also only Measles is primarily dangerous to children. Rubella and mumps are hazardous to pregnant women and teenage/adult men. The MMR is coming under fire for perhaps not protecting against mumps as well as advertised: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons there is not mandatory vaccination without exemption is monetary. It is very hard to prove damage under VAERS.

If vaccines were mandatory then so would health care compensation for any side effects that resulted from them, and that is a liability the government has not wanted.
Now, that might change, and they can put programs in place to deal with an medical lawsuits that might result

[Anonymous]

I think its pretty important to know that the MMR might not actually be protecting my teenage son from mumps and thus potential sterility. But if there is no open scientific exchange about potential vaccine failures allowed then there is no positive growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is your point with all of this?

If you're an anti vaxxer you can stay right the fuck away from me and my infant. I can say this politely or use lots of profanity... End result is the same... I don't want to breathe the same air as you and if I find out you're at the same pediatrician or daycare center as me, I'm going to make a big fucking stink.

Again, you are an idiot! Just because my kids are not fully vaxxed, does not mean that they are walking hosts. My daughter is not just carrying, measles, etc etc. what do you not get? You have your kid vaxxed, what's the worry dear? Question? Are you fully vaxxed? Doubt it. Have you had you titers checked?
Nice language by the way....

Op, I love you!

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons there is not mandatory vaccination without exemption is monetary. It is very hard to prove damage under VAERS

yes, it would indeed be hard - impossible, in fact - to prove damages under VAERS, because it is not a compensation system. Rather, it is a passive reporting system that collects data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is your point with all of this?

If you're an anti vaxxer you can stay right the fuck away from me and my infant. I can say this politely or use lots of profanity... End result is the same... I don't want to breathe the same air as you and if I find out you're at the same pediatrician or daycare center as me, I'm going to make a big fucking stink.

Again, you are an idiot! Just because my kids are not fully vaxxed, does not mean that they are walking hosts. My daughter is not just carrying, measles, etc etc. what do you not get? You have your kid vaxxed, what's the worry dear? Question? Are you fully vaxxed? Doubt it. Have you had you titers checked?
Nice language by the way....

Op, I love you!

[Anonymous]

But VAERS is the only way a parent can be compensated. Which is why mandatory vaccination would create a compensation system. If you force someone to take a risk and they are that 1 in a million there is liability to consider.