Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just looked at the FAQ on the magnet info website (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0Zy-bCfG7O8E-F64VOnit_54fjOIU_lTR1JyU8SSMg/edit), and it was updated this week and now includes this information about cutoffs. There were indeed local norms. I still have a hard time understanding what happened with the students who posted here with 98th% MAP scores, as it seems really unlikely that 98th nationally is 85th locally.

23. How were Grade 5 students identified for placement in the lottery pool for recommendation in a middle school magnet program?
Multiple academic measures were used to identify students. Given the impact of COVID-19 school-building closures, both measures from the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 school years were included. To be placed in the humanities and communication lottery pool, an A in both reading and writing and an indication of above reading grade level on the report card from Grade 4, and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-R. For math, science or computer science, an A in both math and science and an indication of on level or higher for reading on the report card from Grade 4 and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-M.
24. What are locally normed scores?
Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms of assessment scores as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally, the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes the use of local norms as part of the gifted and talented identification process.
MCPS locally normed scores are designed to examine test takers in relation to one another within MCPS. As part of the middle school magnet identification process, scores obtained on the MAP assessment were locally normed.

Saying "we do local norming" without saying how seems shady as hell.

Last year, if memory serves right, CogAT scores were normed -- home middle schools were placed in one of three groups based on FARMS status and scores were normed among students in the same group. I don't understand why this has to be a secret this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just looked at the FAQ on the magnet info website (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0Zy-bCfG7O8E-F64VOnit_54fjOIU_lTR1JyU8SSMg/edit), and it was updated this week and now includes this information about cutoffs. There were indeed local norms. I still have a hard time understanding what happened with the students who posted here with 98th% MAP scores, as it seems really unlikely that 98th nationally is 85th locally.

23. How were Grade 5 students identified for placement in the lottery pool for recommendation in a middle school magnet program?
Multiple academic measures were used to identify students. Given the impact of COVID-19 school-building closures, both measures from the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 school years were included. To be placed in the humanities and communication lottery pool, an A in both reading and writing and an indication of above reading grade level on the report card from Grade 4, and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-R. For math, science or computer science, an A in both math and science and an indication of on level or higher for reading on the report card from Grade 4 and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-M.
24. What are locally normed scores?
Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms of assessment scores as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally, the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes the use of local norms as part of the gifted and talented identification process.
MCPS locally normed scores are designed to examine test takers in relation to one another within MCPS. As part of the middle school magnet identification process, scores obtained on the MAP assessment were locally normed.

Saying "we do local norming" without saying how seems shady as hell.

Last year, if memory serves right, CogAT scores were normed -- home middle schools were placed in one of three groups based on FARMS status and scores were normed among students in the same group. I don't understand why this has to be a secret this year.

Shady is about right. And who thinks it's ok to sneak this into the FAQs about a program after the fact rather than explain the process before it happens? L

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just looked at the FAQ on the magnet info website (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0Zy-bCfG7O8E-F64VOnit_54fjOIU_lTR1JyU8SSMg/edit), and it was updated this week and now includes this information about cutoffs. There were indeed local norms. I still have a hard time understanding what happened with the students who posted here with 98th% MAP scores, as it seems really unlikely that 98th nationally is 85th locally.

23. How were Grade 5 students identified for placement in the lottery pool for recommendation in a middle school magnet program?
Multiple academic measures were used to identify students. Given the impact of COVID-19 school-building closures, both measures from the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 school years were included. To be placed in the humanities and communication lottery pool, an A in both reading and writing and an indication of above reading grade level on the report card from Grade 4, and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-R. For math, science or computer science, an A in both math and science and an indication of on level or higher for reading on the report card from Grade 4 and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-M.
24. What are locally normed scores?
Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms of assessment scores as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally, the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes the use of local norms as part of the gifted and talented identification process.
MCPS locally normed scores are designed to examine test takers in relation to one another within MCPS. As part of the middle school magnet identification process, scores obtained on the MAP assessment were locally normed.

Saying "we do local norming" without saying how seems shady as hell.

Last year, if memory serves right, CogAT scores were normed -- home middle schools were placed in one of three groups based on FARMS status and scores were normed among students in the same group. I don't understand why this has to be a secret this year.

Shady is about right. And who thinks it's ok to sneak this into the FAQs about a program after the fact rather than explain the process before it happens? L

Also, MCPS, if you're reading and thinking that this is a permanent change to get you out of lawsuits, you should keep in mind that MAP scores are most easily prepped. All you have to do is teach more math!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just received this email:

Families of Grade 5 students in the middle school regional magnet lottery pool,

During the week of March 22, MCPS will begin filling vacancies in the regional magnet programs. The Upcounty regional magnet programs are housed at Roberto Clemente Middle School (math, science, computer science) and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Middle School (humanities and communication), and the Downcounty programs are housed at Eastern Middle School (humanities and communication) and Takoma Park Middle School (math, science, computer science). All students in the lottery pool are eligible for a seat when an opening occurs. MCPS will contact you if your student has been invited.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

I have something arriving in the mail today from MCPS Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services (according to my USPS informed delivery). Fingers crossed, although it's also entirely possible that it's something like a notification from the second round of the lottery magnets telling me my kid still doesn't have a space there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just looked at the FAQ on the magnet info website (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0Zy-bCfG7O8E-F64VOnit_54fjOIU_lTR1JyU8SSMg/edit), and it was updated this week and now includes this information about cutoffs. There were indeed local norms. I still have a hard time understanding what happened with the students who posted here with 98th% MAP scores, as it seems really unlikely that 98th nationally is 85th locally.

23. How were Grade 5 students identified for placement in the lottery pool for recommendation in a middle school magnet program?
Multiple academic measures were used to identify students. Given the impact of COVID-19 school-building closures, both measures from the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 school years were included. To be placed in the humanities and communication lottery pool, an A in both reading and writing and an indication of above reading grade level on the report card from Grade 4, and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-R. For math, science or computer science, an A in both math and science and an indication of on level or higher for reading on the report card from Grade 4 and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-M.
24. What are locally normed scores?
Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms of assessment scores as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally, the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes the use of local norms as part of the gifted and talented identification process.
MCPS locally normed scores are designed to examine test takers in relation to one another within MCPS. As part of the middle school magnet identification process, scores obtained on the MAP assessment were locally normed.

Wow. Based on these criteria, my current TPMS DC—who is getting straight As in the program—would not have even made it into the pool. He had a stratospheric MAP-M and all As in math, but had a B in science in grade 5—a class for which there were few graded assignments at his school. I realize the county had very few data points available, but I can only imagine that there were many well-qualified kids who were kept out of the pool based on these criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just received this email:

Families of Grade 5 students in the middle school regional magnet lottery pool,

During the week of March 22, MCPS will begin filling vacancies in the regional magnet programs. The Upcounty regional magnet programs are housed at Roberto Clemente Middle School (math, science, computer science) and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Middle School (humanities and communication), and the Downcounty programs are housed at Eastern Middle School (humanities and communication) and Takoma Park Middle School (math, science, computer science). All students in the lottery pool are eligible for a seat when an opening occurs. MCPS will contact you if your student has been invited.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

I have something arriving in the mail today from MCPS Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services (according to my USPS informed delivery). Fingers crossed, although it's also entirely possible that it's something like a notification from the second round of the lottery magnets telling me my kid still doesn't have a space there.

Ha, that's exactly what it turned out to be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just received this email:

Families of Grade 5 students in the middle school regional magnet lottery pool,

During the week of March 22, MCPS will begin filling vacancies in the regional magnet programs. The Upcounty regional magnet programs are housed at Roberto Clemente Middle School (math, science, computer science) and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Middle School (humanities and communication), and the Downcounty programs are housed at Eastern Middle School (humanities and communication) and Takoma Park Middle School (math, science, computer science). All students in the lottery pool are eligible for a seat when an opening occurs. MCPS will contact you if your student has been invited.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

I have something arriving in the mail today from MCPS Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program Services (according to my USPS informed delivery). Fingers crossed, although it's also entirely possible that it's something like a notification from the second round of the lottery magnets telling me my kid still doesn't have a space there.

Ha, that's exactly what it turned out to be!

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

Are you asking about the "criteria" magnets (Eastern/Clemente/King/Takoma Park) or the "lottery" magnets (Parkland/Argyle/Loiederman)? What communication have you received?

For the criteria magnets, we received the original notification of being in the pool but not selected last month, then received an email this week (that somebody posted earlier in this thread) saying they are starting to fill vacancies and will contact families if their child is selected from the waitlist.

For the lottery, we received an email confirmation when we entered the lottery, then an initial notice in the mail in February that the first round lottery was held and my kid didn't get a spot but would be considered for future openings, and then another notice in the mail today saying the second round lottery had happened and we still didn't have a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

Are you asking about the "criteria" magnets (Eastern/Clemente/King/Takoma Park) or the "lottery" magnets (Parkland/Argyle/Loiederman)? What communication have you received?

For the criteria magnets, we received the original notification of being in the pool but not selected last month, then received an email this week (that somebody posted earlier in this thread) saying they are starting to fill vacancies and will contact families if their child is selected from the waitlist.

For the lottery, we received an email confirmation when we entered the lottery, then an initial notice in the mail in February that the first round lottery was held and my kid didn't get a spot but would be considered for future openings, and then another notice in the mail today saying the second round lottery had happened and we still didn't have a spot.

We never received any communication via email at all. The only communication we received was the letter in the mail saying that we were in the pool for both Eastern and TPMS, we were not selected but could be considered if space becomes available, eg waitlist. Never received any emails subsequent to that letter about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

Are you asking about the "criteria" magnets (Eastern/Clemente/King/Takoma Park) or the "lottery" magnets (Parkland/Argyle/Loiederman)? What communication have you received?

For the criteria magnets, we received the original notification of being in the pool but not selected last month, then received an email this week (that somebody posted earlier in this thread) saying they are starting to fill vacancies and will contact families if their child is selected from the waitlist.

For the lottery, we received an email confirmation when we entered the lottery, then an initial notice in the mail in February that the first round lottery was held and my kid didn't get a spot but would be considered for future openings, and then another notice in the mail today saying the second round lottery had happened and we still didn't have a spot.

We never received any communication via email at all. The only communication we received was the letter in the mail saying that we were in the pool for both Eastern and TPMS, we were not selected but could be considered if space becomes available, eg waitlist. Never received any emails subsequent to that letter about anything.

Just to add that I was not even aware there was a second round lottery and we have not yet received anything in the mail. I’ll keep my eyes out for mail but it’s curious how there is such a discrepancy in communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

Are you asking about the "criteria" magnets (Eastern/Clemente/King/Takoma Park) or the "lottery" magnets (Parkland/Argyle/Loiederman)? What communication have you received?

For the criteria magnets, we received the original notification of being in the pool but not selected last month, then received an email this week (that somebody posted earlier in this thread) saying they are starting to fill vacancies and will contact families if their child is selected from the waitlist.

For the lottery, we received an email confirmation when we entered the lottery, then an initial notice in the mail in February that the first round lottery was held and my kid didn't get a spot but would be considered for future openings, and then another notice in the mail today saying the second round lottery had happened and we still didn't have a spot.

We never received any communication via email at all. The only communication we received was the letter in the mail saying that we were in the pool for both Eastern and TPMS, we were not selected but could be considered if space becomes available, eg waitlist. Never received any emails subsequent to that letter about anything.

You might check your spam filter for an email with the subject "MCPS Gr 5 Regional Magnet Update" that should have come on Tuesday, 3/23. That's the only thing it sounds like you might have missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m curious why I never received any communication like this. Just the letter in the mail saying we were on the list and nothing more on our side.

Are you asking about the "criteria" magnets (Eastern/Clemente/King/Takoma Park) or the "lottery" magnets (Parkland/Argyle/Loiederman)? What communication have you received?

For the criteria magnets, we received the original notification of being in the pool but not selected last month, then received an email this week (that somebody posted earlier in this thread) saying they are starting to fill vacancies and will contact families if their child is selected from the waitlist.

For the lottery, we received an email confirmation when we entered the lottery, then an initial notice in the mail in February that the first round lottery was held and my kid didn't get a spot but would be considered for future openings, and then another notice in the mail today saying the second round lottery had happened and we still didn't have a spot.

We never received any communication via email at all. The only communication we received was the letter in the mail saying that we were in the pool for both Eastern and TPMS, we were not selected but could be considered if space becomes available, eg waitlist. Never received any emails subsequent to that letter about anything.

Just to add that I was not even aware there was a second round lottery and we have not yet received anything in the mail. I’ll keep my eyes out for mail but it’s curious how there is such a discrepancy in communication.

You seem to be confusing the two sets of special schools.
If you didn't request placement in Parkland, Argyle or Loiderman (schools with special programs that are NOT selective but always operate by lottery), then you're not going to receive communications from them.
If you wanted Clemente, Takoma Park, or Eastern (schools that cater to gifted students and are usually selective but this year operated by a rather loosey-goosey lottery), then it sounds like all you missed is an email that was sent to explain that MCPS is now filling vacancies in those magnets and will let you know if your child is selected (by lottery, again). It may be in your spam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just looked at the FAQ on the magnet info website (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l0Zy-bCfG7O8E-F64VOnit_54fjOIU_lTR1JyU8SSMg/edit), and it was updated this week and now includes this information about cutoffs. There were indeed local norms. I still have a hard time understanding what happened with the students who posted here with 98th% MAP scores, as it seems really unlikely that 98th nationally is 85th locally.

23. How were Grade 5 students identified for placement in the lottery pool for recommendation in a middle school magnet program?
Multiple academic measures were used to identify students. Given the impact of COVID-19 school-building closures, both measures from the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 school years were included. To be placed in the humanities and communication lottery pool, an A in both reading and writing and an indication of above reading grade level on the report card from Grade 4, and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-R. For math, science or computer science, an A in both math and science and an indication of on level or higher for reading on the report card from Grade 4 and a locally normed minimum of 85th percentile on either last year (winter) or this year’s (fall) MAP-M.
24. What are locally normed scores?
Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms of assessment scores as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access. Additionally, the current draft of Gifted and Talented Definitions from the Maryland State Department of Education includes the use of local norms as part of the gifted and talented identification process.
MCPS locally normed scores are designed to examine test takers in relation to one another within MCPS. As part of the middle school magnet identification process, scores obtained on the MAP assessment were locally normed.

That is grossly unfair. 85th %, normed any way you like, is a cutoff that is incredibly LOW for magnets. Year in , year out, students selected for middle school magnets are in the 99th percentile for MAP tests, and Cogat too.

This means that excellent students lost on the chance to study for three years at a level they need, because other students won a place they would not have won in another year. I'm very happy for these students, but angry at MCPS for shutting out outliers and truly gifted students who really need those three years of advanced instruction.

It's outrageous.

[Anonymous]

I don’t like how MCPS is dealing with this issue. They have decided to ration advanced instruction instead of provide it to everyone who needs it.

I personally have no problem with MCPS giving opportunity for advanced instruction to 85% kids in schools that are failing. They really do need to support those kids and get them into better environments where they can achieve their potential.

The problem is that they refuse to provide support for advanced instruction to kids like mine that is 99%.

It is possible to do both but they refuse to do it. The sense I get is that MCPS actually does not want to serve high performing students at all. I see the posts, which call them “dream hoarders”. We can all see the policies, like focus schools, where higher achieving schools are intentionally provided larger class sizes and less resources than high FARMS schools.

I’m just curious what the endgame is here.

[Anonymous]

So has anyone been contacted by MCPS with moving your child from the waitpool to the acceptance pool?