High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You should have been working with them at home OP. Everyone knows that.

Parents shouldn’t be the primary instructor for foundational skills like writing.

Yes they should. If you refuse to stop complaining. It’s part of parenting.

Are you a trained educator? What are you specifically doing with your kids at home to teach them to write properly?

You don’t need to be an educator to teach your kid the basics.

The problem is that this refrain comes up for everything- phonics, spelling, writing, history, math, etc. "You should have been working with your child at home." WTF are they doing all day at school if we're expected to do this much supplementing at night in addition to their assigned homework? If they're not even getting "the basics" at school than what is the point.

Exactly! I'm a prosecutor. I'm protecting you all from criminals committing crimes in your neighborhoods. Then I should also teach all school subjects when I get home? Do the teachers prosecute crimes when they get off of work? GTFOH.

I think you should be a parent and part of being a parent is education. It is your job to help educate your kids and ensure they get what they mean. If you are too busy to spend even 15 minutes a day you have no business having kids.

DP but if you think you can teach your kids all their subjects in even 15 minutes a day you have no business in this conversation.

As a PP said, if parents are expected to provide the education, WTF is the point of sending the kids to school all day?

In preschool and Es we heavily supplemented. If your kids are not strong in a subject and you will not help, stop complaining. We still help out older kids and proof read their papers.

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question- but if your child is receiving mostly As and the teacher says they're doing great, how do you know what they aren't strong at? We supplemented our older DC with phonics before MCPS introduced RGR because the 3-cueing method wasn't working for him. But that was an obvious hole. As he gets older it is less clear to me what he needs- everyone says the curriculum is bad. I don't want to get to high school and find they can't write, but if they are already meeting MCPS grade-level benchmarks what benchmarks should I be using instead to identify the deficiencies?

Again, I'm really sorry if this is a dumb question. I did not grow up in an American educational system, where I went to school teachers were highly respected and did the teaching. My parents were not expected to do all this extra teaching at home....

The new ELA curriculum being implemented this year is very good. It was the one they retired at the end of last year that was bad.

I have a friend who is an MCPS teacher in lower elementary. She hates the new ELA curriculum. She told me the way they’re now forced to teach phonics makes no sense.

Can you briefly explain what it is/how it’s bad? We were planning to transfer to MCPS next year.

She told me that the way the curriculum presents groups of phonics concepts is haphazard and includes little explanation about why various digraphs and blends, for example, operate the way they do in English. She said the kids are expected to just spit out phonetic patterns without really understanding the concepts.

She said the accompanying texts the kids are supposed to read for the lesson include phonics concepts the kids haven’t learned yet, so they aren’t equipped to be able to read the text.

This is for 2nd grade, so they’re very much still in the process of learning to read.

That's because they are starting it for the first time this year. In 2 years the 2nd graders will have had K and 1st with the curriculum and will be in much better shape.

This curriculum is much, much more challenging than the one they used previously. It's going to be a rough transition for kids/teachers used to the slow pace and simpler content from before. But younger kids in particular are really going to benefit in that they will have many years with the new curriculum.

Why can’t they just find a curriculum and stick with it?

I'd rather have them move to a high-quality, standards-aligned curriculum than stick to one that is bad. Ideally, of course, they would choose the good curriculum the first time around, but when that doens't happen, they should switch.

The worst curriculum of all, of course, is 2.0. And they are still using that in high school. They even doubled down on it this year by "revising" the 2.0 HS English curriculum and made it worse. I don't understand why they don't just use external curricula, especially when some of the best are available for free.

Why do trolls keep posting things that they have no clues about them?
C2.0 WAS NEVER implemented in HS.

Well, MCPS has its own high school curriculum. Maybe it's not called 2.0, but it is crap.

Again, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You're the one who ignorantly claimed:

The worst curriculum of all, of course, is 2.0. And they are still using that in high school. They even doubled down on it this year by "revising" the 2.0

Keep digging yourself into a hole but then again, you're a troll, trolls have no shame.

So you think the high school English curriculum, which MCPS created itself but the state has said is well below grade-level standards, is good?

When did the state say that?
You keep spewing ignorance

Watch the Curriculum Committee's educational equity workshop from last year.

I see that you keep attacking people but don't actually defend the curriculum. Keep on troling....

Do you know where to find a link?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. Kid is at Whitman. I just hope she learns to write in college. I’m an editor. I do what I can to help, but it’s shocking how remedial her skills are. She’s a reader and loves to write, but I’ve had to teach her when to use a comma. I and me? It’s and its? They’re and their and there? When did schools stop teaching kids how to diagram sentences?

My kid (not McMS) never learned to diagram. Shameful. They have no clue what’s going on structurally in a sentence

Diagramming sentences started to fall out of favor in the 1980s.

I did it in high school in 2001-2005.

Anyway, kids need to learn grammar, regardless of whether it’s through diagramming sentences or some other way.

I taught my MCPS kids sentence diagramming in middle school as a way to teach grammar. Google Grammar revolution .I then often point out paragraphs in the newspaper, etc. that have a mistake and ask them to find it. They enjoyed finding the mistakes in adults’ work. I also got them writing tutors (despite their all As). It worked. Kid 1 is a great writer/editor in college. Kid 2 in high school at least has the tools and vocab so that he can understand my critiques.

I would rather just send my kid to private school. That way she can get better instruction across the board and spend her time outside of school on other things, rather than having to piece together basic skills that school doesn’t cover.

Better is subjective. I wasn't impressed with the privates I looked at. But, then again I'm an involved parent. Why are you posting here? To justify your decisions?

You really can’t expect us to believe you’re a reliable source about schools you have never actually sent your kid to.

Private school parents pay taxes too and have the right to expect a decent public education. If MCPS wasn’t so horrible, my kid wouldn’t be in private school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. Kid is at Whitman. I just hope she learns to write in college. I’m an editor. I do what I can to help, but it’s shocking how remedial her skills are. She’s a reader and loves to write, but I’ve had to teach her when to use a comma. I and me? It’s and its? They’re and their and there? When did schools stop teaching kids how to diagram sentences?

My kid (not McMS) never learned to diagram. Shameful. They have no clue what’s going on structurally in a sentence

Diagramming sentences started to fall out of favor in the 1980s.

I did it in high school in 2001-2005.

Anyway, kids need to learn grammar, regardless of whether it’s through diagramming sentences or some other way.

I taught my MCPS kids sentence diagramming in middle school as a way to teach grammar. Google Grammar revolution .I then often point out paragraphs in the newspaper, etc. that have a mistake and ask them to find it. They enjoyed finding the mistakes in adults’ work. I also got them writing tutors (despite their all As). It worked. Kid 1 is a great writer/editor in college. Kid 2 in high school at least has the tools and vocab so that he can understand my critiques.

I would rather just send my kid to private school. That way she can get better instruction across the board and spend her time outside of school on other things, rather than having to piece together basic skills that school doesn’t cover.

Better is subjective. I wasn't impressed with the privates I looked at. But, then again I'm an involved parent. Why are you posting here? To justify your decisions?

You really can’t expect us to believe you’re a reliable source about schools you have never actually sent your kid to.

Private school parents pay taxes too and have the right to expect a decent public education. If MCPS wasn’t so horrible, my kid wouldn’t be in private school.

Why are you posting here if you know you made the right decision? With parental involvement, kids can get a good education in MCPS. We have been in both private schools and public. There was nothing special about the private school and they didn't offer accelerated math classes. You'd rather post here and ramble on about how bad something is and then pay someone to fix it than spend time doing it yourself. I feel bad for your kids. Nothing wrong with private, but you don't need to slam MCPS to justify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

Look at the math tracks for one... its easy for a private when they cherry-pick kids and don't have the same issues so they aren't comparable, but your private with a few hundred kids isn't even comparable. All the schools have issues - public and private. For dyslexia, private makes sense. But, for a very smart child above grade level its parent choice. When we looked at privates, several were not comparable with academics and it was not impressive at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

Look at the math tracks for one... its easy for a private when they cherry-pick kids and don't have the same issues so they aren't comparable, but your private with a few hundred kids isn't even comparable. All the schools have issues - public and private. For dyslexia, private makes sense. But, for a very smart child above grade level its parent choice. When we looked at privates, several were not comparable with academics and it was not impressive at all.

Ah the math argument.

MCPS arguably pushes too fast on math. The proficiency scores bear that out, as they’re atrocious.

There’s very good pedagogical reason to not accelerate like that.

Holton gives a thorough explanation of why they approach math like they do:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

But you must be an expert because you “looked at” a few private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

Look at the math tracks for one... its easy for a private when they cherry-pick kids and don't have the same issues so they aren't comparable, but your private with a few hundred kids isn't even comparable. All the schools have issues - public and private. For dyslexia, private makes sense. But, for a very smart child above grade level its parent choice. When we looked at privates, several were not comparable with academics and it was not impressive at all.

Ah the math argument.

MCPS arguably pushes too fast on math. The proficiency scores bear that out, as they’re atrocious.

There’s very good pedagogical reason to not accelerate like that.

Holton gives a thorough explanation of why they approach math like they do:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

But you must be an expert because you “looked at” a few private schools.

And Holton must be experts because they wrote their thinking down in a document? MCPS proficiency scores don’t bear out that accelerated students aren’t passing district nor state exam. They say a portion of students are not passing the state mandate exams. But it doesn’t separate out who these students are. Nor does it show that Holton students would have any better likelyhood of passing the same exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

Ding, dind, ding, ding
We have a winner.

+1 Rather than shelling out 40K for a private school with a long commute, you can get a writing tutor 1-2 a week and still come out far ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

Look at the math tracks for one... its easy for a private when they cherry-pick kids and don't have the same issues so they aren't comparable, but your private with a few hundred kids isn't even comparable. All the schools have issues - public and private. For dyslexia, private makes sense. But, for a very smart child above grade level its parent choice. When we looked at privates, several were not comparable with academics and it was not impressive at all.

Ah the math argument.

MCPS arguably pushes too fast on math. The proficiency scores bear that out, as they’re atrocious.

There’s very good pedagogical reason to not accelerate like that.

Holton gives a thorough explanation of why they approach math like they do:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

But you must be an expert because you “looked at” a few private schools.

And Holton must be experts because they wrote their thinking down in a document? MCPS proficiency scores don’t bear out that accelerated students aren’t passing district nor state exam. They say a portion of students are not passing the state mandate exams. But it doesn’t separate out who these students are. Nor does it show that Holton students would have any better likelyhood of passing the same exams.

MCPS accelerates basically all students.

You’re a troll who doesn’t understand what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

Ding, dind, ding, ding
We have a winner.

+1 Rather than shelling out 40K for a private school with a long commute, you can get a writing tutor 1-2 a week and still come out far ahead.

lol wow

The delusion runs so deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Welcome to MCPS and enjoy the honors for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. Kid is at Whitman. I just hope she learns to write in college. I’m an editor. I do what I can to help, but it’s shocking how remedial her skills are. She’s a reader and loves to write, but I’ve had to teach her when to use a comma. I and me? It’s and its? They’re and their and there? When did schools stop teaching kids how to diagram sentences?

My kid (not McMS) never learned to diagram. Shameful. They have no clue what’s going on structurally in a sentence

Diagramming sentences started to fall out of favor in the 1980s.

I did it in high school in 2001-2005.

Anyway, kids need to learn grammar, regardless of whether it’s through diagramming sentences or some other way.

I taught my MCPS kids sentence diagramming in middle school as a way to teach grammar. Google Grammar revolution .I then often point out paragraphs in the newspaper, etc. that have a mistake and ask them to find it. They enjoyed finding the mistakes in adults’ work. I also got them writing tutors (despite their all As). It worked. Kid 1 is a great writer/editor in college. Kid 2 in high school at least has the tools and vocab so that he can understand my critiques.

Thank you! Just signed up for Grammar Revolution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

So you think the writing skills of the average wealthy private school kid are the same as that of our MCPS students?

Yes, I think that both groups are similar when you look at high acieving kids. Privates self-select so they don't have the diversity or learning or other disabilities or issues but if you took the top MCPS students, they are probably more advanced than the privates. Mine is a great writer. Had a few good teachers and we worked on it at home.

Algebra begins in 7th grade at Holton. That is 2 years ahead of Common Core and in line with the most advanced MCPS students.


Do you have any evidence at all that the top MCPS students are more advanced than, say, the top private school kids?

Also, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to learning disabilities. My kid has dyslexia and ADHD and is being accommodated wonderfully in a well respected private school.

Maybe learn about private schools in this area before acting like you’re an expert on the kids who attend.

Look at the math tracks for one... its easy for a private when they cherry-pick kids and don't have the same issues so they aren't comparable, but your private with a few hundred kids isn't even comparable. All the schools have issues - public and private. For dyslexia, private makes sense. But, for a very smart child above grade level its parent choice. When we looked at privates, several were not comparable with academics and it was not impressive at all.

Ah the math argument.

MCPS arguably pushes too fast on math. The proficiency scores bear that out, as they’re atrocious.

There’s very good pedagogical reason to not accelerate like that.

Holton gives a thorough explanation of why they approach math like they do:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dQXiD9zHmP29RbpgGFTxXUs4YEfamalltpkL3MtWNEg/edit

But you must be an expert because you “looked at” a few private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I hear you. Kid is at Whitman. I just hope she learns to write in college. I’m an editor. I do what I can to help, but it’s shocking how remedial her skills are. She’s a reader and loves to write, but I’ve had to teach her when to use a comma. I and me? It’s and its? They’re and their and there? When did schools stop teaching kids how to diagram sentences?

My kid (not McMS) never learned to diagram. Shameful. They have no clue what’s going on structurally in a sentence

Diagramming sentences started to fall out of favor in the 1980s.

I did it in high school in 2001-2005.

Anyway, kids need to learn grammar, regardless of whether it’s through diagramming sentences or some other way.

I taught my MCPS kids sentence diagramming in middle school as a way to teach grammar. Google Grammar revolution .I then often point out paragraphs in the newspaper, etc. that have a mistake and ask them to find it. They enjoyed finding the mistakes in adults’ work. I also got them writing tutors (despite their all As). It worked. Kid 1 is a great writer/editor in college. Kid 2 in high school at least has the tools and vocab so that he can understand my critiques.

I would rather just send my kid to private school. That way she can get better instruction across the board and spend her time outside of school on other things, rather than having to piece together basic skills that school doesn’t cover.

Better is subjective. I wasn't impressed with the privates I looked at. But, then again I'm an involved parent. Why are you posting here? To justify your decisions?

And there you go, ending a sentence with a preposition. I recognize your writing style from pages back. We know - you looked at some private schools and they were soooooo inferior to MCPS couple with your random ad hoc ‘English’ tutoring. 🙄🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the only answer that is being suggested here consistently is private school.

Its wealthy private school parents trying to justify their decisions.

Wealthy people don’t feel like they have to justify anything.