FCPS High School Poverty and Enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also think there are more problems than just the demographics at Lewis.

I have been wondering this. I live nowhere near that area, but I do know that something is wrong when all other races are leaving the school. Black, White, and Asian are leaving in numbers, while Hispanic population is going up.

Herndon has 51% Hispanic, but it still manages well. It also has about 50% free lunch.

Get rid of IB at Lewis ASAP.

It doesn't help that Key Middle school is a disaster by all accounts. The behavior issues there and disruptions to learning mean that any family that can flees before high school. They seem to really need new leadership. I have many friends who have tried Key and been so dismayed that they've found other alternatives for high school - moving, private school, getting into the STEM program at Edison, etc.

Key has been a disaster since the early 2000's. I interviewed/observed there cops were called three times just in the morning. I told them no thank you on the job.
I just looked at the demographic history of Key. (I don't live near there) It is very interesting that numbers are dropping with all races. Percentages remain pretty stable, but it does appear people are leaving.

That is a big red flag.

Why doesn't Gatehouse do something? SB? crickets

Because Gatehouse....well does anyone know what people do their all day?! They don't care and if parents are really honest the SB doesn't care either. It's been an issue for years and has nothing to do with republican or Democrats. FCPS has been a mess for many years now....and it's at a tipping point where students, teachers, and parents are really feeling and seeing it fall apart.

This is inaccurate. Fwiw, there was talk for years of closing Lee because it was in danger of losing its accreditation. Then Richmond changed the rules and saved it from that fate. This was years before the pandemic.

The point is, Lewis has been struggling for decades. The SB and Gatehouse didn't cause this.

Sure they did. Redistricted higher-income areas out of Lewis. Refused to revisit a lackluster IB program. Sent a message Lewis was a pariah by expanding West Springfield when there was space at Lewis. Focused on a silly academy program that made little sense and has stalled rather than other academics/programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

Also, the poverty rate of the county is above 20%. Moving students around won't fix this problem. It's mathematically impossible.

You want homogenous school district. Well, we don't have one.

The county poverty rate is below 40% and some schools have rates well below 10% including schools that border high poverty schools.

Only MS under 10% is Cooper. Only HS under 10% is Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

But does this mean that other kids are needed to bring the performance expectation averages up? That really doesn’t change anything for the students at Lewis.

It creates cohorts and raises expectations across the student body.

It’s a nice sentiment, but is there any proof that dropping 20% MC/UMC students into a school of low income students actually results in higher scores for the lower income students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

Also, the poverty rate of the county is above 20%. Moving students around won't fix this problem. It's mathematically impossible.

You want homogenous school district. Well, we don't have one.

The county poverty rate is below 40% and some schools have rates well below 10% including schools that border high poverty schools.

Only MS under 10% is Cooper. Only HS under 10% is Langley.

Where are you going to get "high poverty" kids for Langley or Cooper?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I also think there are more problems than just the demographics at Lewis.

I have been wondering this. I live nowhere near that area, but I do know that something is wrong when all other races are leaving the school. Black, White, and Asian are leaving in numbers, while Hispanic population is going up.

Herndon has 51% Hispanic, but it still manages well. It also has about 50% free lunch.

Get rid of IB at Lewis ASAP.

It doesn't help that Key Middle school is a disaster by all accounts. The behavior issues there and disruptions to learning mean that any family that can flees before high school. They seem to really need new leadership. I have many friends who have tried Key and been so dismayed that they've found other alternatives for high school - moving, private school, getting into the STEM program at Edison, etc.

Key has been a disaster since the early 2000's. I interviewed/observed there cops were called three times just in the morning. I told them no thank you on the job.
I just looked at the demographic history of Key. (I don't live near there) It is very interesting that numbers are dropping with all races. Percentages remain pretty stable, but it does appear people are leaving.

That is a big red flag.

Why doesn't Gatehouse do something? SB? crickets

Because Gatehouse....well does anyone know what people do their all day?! They don't care and if parents are really honest the SB doesn't care either. It's been an issue for years and has nothing to do with republican or Democrats. FCPS has been a mess for many years now....and it's at a tipping point where students, teachers, and parents are really feeling and seeing it fall apart.

This is inaccurate. Fwiw, there was talk for years of closing Lee because it was in danger of losing its accreditation. Then Richmond changed the rules and saved it from that fate. This was years before the pandemic.

The point is, Lewis has been struggling for decades. The SB and Gatehouse didn't cause this.

Decades is not true. It has been in decline for 15 years, mostly after South County was opened and there were significant boundary changes. Up to that point it was a fairly middle level Fairfax high school.

[Anonymous]

It’s a nice sentiment, but is there any proof that dropping 20% MC/UMC students into a school of low income students actually results in higher scores for the lower income students?

No. Just covers it up for the school total.

It does not help the students. It will result in more private schools. Some will move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

Also, the poverty rate of the county is above 20%. Moving students around won't fix this problem. It's mathematically impossible.

You want homogenous school district. Well, we don't have one.

The county poverty rate is below 40% and some schools have rates well below 10% including schools that border high poverty schools.

Which schools below 10% border high poverty schools?

Langley borders herndon, part of McLean borders Falls Church and the boundary is very close to justice if you cut through Arlington. Go to 15% and Oakton borders Falls Church, Woodson borders Falls Church and Annandale, West Springfield borders Annandale and Lewis, and Lake Braddock borders Annandale. Part of the problem is the school board, more of the problem is the county zoning and granting zoning exemptions in a way that concentrates poverty. The development in Tysons and along Rt 7 could have have been required to include low income housing, but they prefer to keep that in the east part of the county

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

Also, the poverty rate of the county is above 20%. Moving students around won't fix this problem. It's mathematically impossible.

You want homogenous school district. Well, we don't have one.

The county poverty rate is below 40% and some schools have rates well below 10% including schools that border high poverty schools.

Which schools below 10% border high poverty schools?

Langley borders herndon, part of McLean borders Falls Church and the boundary is very close to justice if you cut through Arlington. Go to 15% and Oakton borders Falls Church, Woodson borders Falls Church and Annandale, West Springfield borders Annandale and Lewis, and Lake Braddock borders Annandale. Part of the problem is the school board, more of the problem is the county zoning and granting zoning exemptions in a way that concentrates poverty. The development in Tysons and along Rt 7 could have have been required to include low income housing, but they prefer to keep that in the east part of the county

The poverty in Herndon is no where near Langley.

You cannot change geography. I am not familiar with the other areas and the pockets of poverty. The zoning is done. I am not famliar with where the county has built low income housing--but there is quite a bit of low income housing in Herndon--but there are lots of pockets of poverty in other areas besides the east.

[Anonymous]

Just looked at Justice boundary. Justice is over 2000 and the boundary looks fairly compact with the school in the middle.

If you put in wealthier kids where are you going to put Justice kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe electing more men to the School Board this fall will make a difference. The last time the School Board had any guts was when Stuart Gibson pushed through the boundary change in 2008 that moved kids to South Lakes.

Stu Gibson has so much guts he let the SL PTSA run the show and make the decisions. And, it was composed of IB moms.

They didn’t take the heat from the people insisting they had a God-given right to stay at their then-current schools. He did.

In comparison, current SB members are spineless ninnies.

They did not say that. If you had watched the public hearings and citizen participation--as I did--you would have seen the majority of parents begging for South Lakes to switch to AP. Many of those parents still feel that way.

Other parents were upset that this was their third switch in a very short period of time. Some parents ended up with kids who went to three different high schools--without moving.

And, if you really followed it, you would have seen the SLPTA postings on their website that outlined their plans. They took it down when the link was posted on FairfaxUnderground. But, they spelled out exactly what they wanted and did not want. They wanted NO poor neighborhoods. They made that perfectly clear. This was not about numbers, it was all about demographics. The SL PTA was a perfect example of "limousine liberals." They wanted to be at South Lakes so they could claim they were tolerant. They wanted to keep IB so they could be progressive and they wanted wealthier kids so their kids could remain isolated from the poor kids.

Of course it was also about numbers. South Lakes was at about 1400 kids at the time. Westfield had about 2900 back then.

So maybe Lewis has to lose a couple more hundred before some of these lazy SB members do something (though most of the schools had lower enrollments in 2008 so 1400 them is about like 1600-1700 now).

SL was saved from a potential "death spiral" where it would have lost its middle and upper middle class support in the surrounding neighborhoods. It is a robust and popular school today thanks to the parents who pushed for the boundary change to bring in more wealthy residential areas. However, the promised AP courses were never adopted, and that's on the school board. Regarding Lewis, I don't think the school board will do anything unless the Lewis PTA or parent groups make it an issue.

Saving one school from a death spiral doesn't make the kids you don't want at the school disappear. They end up concentrated and no schools want them and no parents want their neighborhoods zoned for those schools. But hooray for keeping poors out of South Lakes and allowing it to thrive.

What is stopping Lewis from thriving.

Look at the assessments

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/schools/lewis-high#fndtn-desktopTabs-assessments

50% of the school is farms, and fcps's own study has 40% as a tipping point past which a school can't really succeed.

But why is this? Why does FARMs mean no success?

It does not mean that. But, when you have hundreds of new students in a year who do not speak English and, perhaps, have not been in school at all, there is a problem. This problem will not be solved by adding more affluent neighborhoods to the boundary.

It does mean that. The resources that the school has go to meeting more basic needs and to remedial instruction.

Here is a study that FCPS commissioned laying it out.

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9DG4KP71B0DB/$file/fcps_tipping-point.pdf

The gist is that "almost all schools with poverty levels of 45 percent or higher were unable to reach expected pass rate levels in reading or math. Follow‐up statistical analyses found statistical evidence that two tipping points exist in FCPS. The reading data provided the most consistent findings as it indicated two tipping points occurring at 20 and 40‐45 percent school‐level poverty. Thus, FCPS schools with greater than 20 percent poverty are much less likely to meet performance expectations than those with less than 20 percent poverty. And, once poverty levels at a school reach 40 percent or more, FCPS schools are unlikely to meet expectations for school performance."

By their own numbers, Lewis, MVHs, Annandale, West Potomac, Falls Church and Justice are all at or past the 40% tipping point and Herndon and Edison are close. Most of those schools have lower FARMs rate schools bordering them, but that would mean unpopular redistricting

Also, the poverty rate of the county is above 20%. Moving students around won't fix this problem. It's mathematically impossible.

You want homogenous school district. Well, we don't have one.

The county poverty rate is below 40% and some schools have rates well below 10% including schools that border high poverty schools.

Only MS under 10% is Cooper. Only HS under 10% is Langley.

Where are you going to get "high poverty" kids for Langley or Cooper?

Was responding to the prior suggestion that numerous schools have FARMS rates well below 10%.

In any case, they could have included parts of Tysons and Reston in Langley's boundaries rather than extend them all the way to the Loudoun border (while only scoping in single-family neighborhoods).

[Anonymous]

So, the question is: is it the school's role to educate students or even out poverty and wealth over geography and community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just looked at Justice boundary. Justice is over 2000 and the boundary looks fairly compact with the school in the middle.

If you put in wealthier kids where are you going to put Justice kids?

If they wanted to reassign some additional wealthier areas to Justice, they'd have to take single-family areas out of Annandale HS or Falls Church HS, and they aren't going to do that. Conversely, the poorest areas zoned to Justice are areas that border Arlington and Alexandria, and can't be reassigned to other FCPS schools without creating attendance islands.

Part of the reason they are expanding Justice to 2500 seats now, even though they could have waited and reassigned part of Justice to nearby Falls Church when Falls Church's renovation/expansion to 2500 seats is finished, is probably that the Justice areas closest to Falls Church are single-family areas in Sleepy Hollow or Annandale. If they waited and reassigned those areas to Falls Church, it would push up the FARMS rates at Justice to near 70%. So expanding Justice allows them to accommodate growth within the existing boundaries. In Justice's case, FCPS can't do much to affect the concentration of poverty in the pyramid. The Board of Supervisors, on the other hand, could do a lot if it either (1) enforced zoning laws or (2) encouraged redevelopment of the run-down garden apartments in Seven Corners and Culmore.

That is different from other situations (for example, Annandale/Woodson or Lewis/West Springfield) where the School Board could theoretically make changes that would balance demographics or enrollments between schools that share a border.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s a nice sentiment, but is there any proof that dropping 20% MC/UMC students into a school of low income students actually results in higher scores for the lower income students?

No. Just covers it up for the school total.

It does not help the students. It will result in more private schools. Some will move.

Disagree. Having a functioning group of students in the classroom makes a world of difference. Role models, students able to answer questions rather than just sitting there, learning about the benefits of higher education/SES, learning how to be polite/codeswitch. It drastically improves the rhythm of teaching being able to separate the trouble makers by at least three kids paying attention. The trouble makers are no longer the leaders of the classroom experience. The middle group of students who want to learn are better able to focus and be successful. The bottom 20% are much slower to change, but at least they get to see peers become successful and they can internalize that effort equals success. However, they can be very resistant resistant to intervention due to generational poverty/drugs/family issues/etc. This is where the budling relationships piece comes into play. But again that is a slow process, since these kids have a lot of trust issues and are often the most sensitive kids in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just looked at Justice boundary. Justice is over 2000 and the boundary looks fairly compact with the school in the middle.

If you put in wealthier kids where are you going to put Justice kids?

If they wanted to reassign some additional wealthier areas to Justice, they'd have to take single-family areas out of Annandale HS or Falls Church HS, and they aren't going to do that. Conversely, the poorest areas zoned to Justice are areas that border Arlington and Alexandria, and can't be reassigned to other FCPS schools without creating attendance islands.

Part of the reason they are expanding Justice to 2500 seats now, even though they could have waited and reassigned part of Justice to nearby Falls Church when Falls Church's renovation/expansion to 2500 seats is finished, is probably that the Justice areas closest to Falls Church are single-family areas in Sleepy Hollow or Annandale. If they waited and reassigned those areas to Falls Church, it would push up the FARMS rates at Justice to near 70%. So expanding Justice allows them to accommodate growth within the existing boundaries. In Justice's case, FCPS can't do much to affect the concentration of poverty in the pyramid. The Board of Supervisors, on the other hand, could do a lot if it either (1) enforced zoning laws or (2) encouraged redevelopment of the run-down garden apartments in Seven Corners and Culmore.

That is different from other situations (for example, Annandale/Woodson or Lewis/West Springfield) where the School Board could theoretically make changes that would balance demographics or enrollments between schools that share a border.

I don't think it would result in the "balance" you think it would. Many people would not send their kids and the poor population shows no signs of slowing down. Look at the demographics now over the last three years. Why are White, Black, and Asian numbers--not just percentages--all going down dramatically? Private? Moving? Pupil placement? Do you really think reassigning a middle class neighborhood is going to change that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s a nice sentiment, but is there any proof that dropping 20% MC/UMC students into a school of low income students actually results in higher scores for the lower income students?

No. Just covers it up for the school total.

It does not help the students. It will result in more private schools. Some will move.

Disagree. Having a functioning group of students in the classroom makes a world of difference. Role models, students able to answer questions rather than just sitting there, learning about the benefits of higher education/SES, learning how to be polite/codeswitch. It drastically improves the rhythm of teaching being able to separate the trouble makers by at least three kids paying attention. The trouble makers are no longer the leaders of the classroom experience. The middle group of students who want to learn are better able to focus and be successful. The bottom 20% are much slower to change, but at least they get to see peers become successful and they can internalize that effort equals success. However, they can be very resistant resistant to intervention due to generational poverty/drugs/family issues/etc. This is where the budling relationships piece comes into play. But again that is a slow process, since these kids have a lot of trust issues and are often the most sensitive kids in the room.

You are not going to get these kids in the same classroom. And, you are not going to have only 20% be at the lower level in a school with that high poverty rate and ESOL needs.
So, you want to take kids out of a successful school and put them into a struggling school and your pipe dream is that it will change things.