Q for lawyers: law school

[Anonymous]

I know everyone says nowadays, "don't go to law school." Do they mean in general across the board or just if you'd have to take lians out to pay for it? If you have parents or whoever footing the entire bill, is it still a bad idea if you don't get into a top fourteen school?

[Anonymous]

Well this depends... what are your job prospects now? Are you getting scholarships, or are your parents offering to fork over $200k for law school? If it is the former, then law school may not be a bad idea, depending on your situation and your career goals. If it is the latter, perhaps you can convince them to give you a down payment for a house instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know everyone says nowadays, "don't go to law school." Do they mean in general across the board or just if you'd have to take lians out to pay for it? If you have parents or whoever footing the entire bill, is it still a bad idea if you don't get into a top fourteen school?

If you have someone footing the bill, consider using that money for something else.

[Anonymous]

It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

Both. Oh goodness. You know what, do not pony up a penny for law school until he has worked in a legal office and knows he enjoys that work. I would say as someone who has been in his shoes, he should work in a law office at least for a year, but if a summer internship is doable I guess that's fine too. And I know this is awful, but maybe he should try a major that will give him more job options (says the former psychology major).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

Both. Oh goodness. You know what, do not pony up a penny for law school until he has worked in a legal office and knows he enjoys that work. I would say as someone who has been in his shoes, he should work in a law office at least for a year, but if a summer internship is doable I guess that's fine too. And I know this is awful, but maybe he should try a major that will give him more job options (says the former psychology major).

Yes this is causing a bit of a problem in our house right now, lol. He wants to major in history and DH thinks this a bad idea. DH wants him to study something "applicable" preferably engineering (though that ship has sailed), economics, finance, etc. I don't know much about legal careers myself though I suspect there *are* interesting things you can do with the degree, so I'm inclined to encourage him in that direction. Pretty much all I hear about irl though are people in BigLaw careers who think their jobs are dull and they despise their employers. Most of them took those jobs to make enough money to pay back their loans though. So they might not be the best examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

Both. Oh goodness. You know what, do not pony up a penny for law school until he has worked in a legal office and knows he enjoys that work. I would say as someone who has been in his shoes, he should work in a law office at least for a year, but if a summer internship is doable I guess that's fine too. And I know this is awful, but maybe he should try a major that will give him more job options (says the former psychology major).

Yes this is causing a bit of a problem in our house right now, lol. He wants to major in history and DH thinks this a bad idea. DH wants him to study something "applicable" preferably engineering (though that ship has sailed), economics, finance, etc. I don't know much about legal careers myself though I suspect there *are* interesting things you can do with the degree, so I'm inclined to encourage him in that direction. Pretty much all I hear about irl though are people in BigLaw careers who think their jobs are dull and they despise their employers. Most of them took those jobs to make enough money to pay back their loans though. So they might not be the best examples.

Yes, there ARE interesting things you can do with a law degree. The problem is that all the people with law degrees (and there are a lot of us) want those jobs, and therefore only a teeny tiny number of people get them. This all depends on your son. Is he Harvard/Yale/Stanford law material? Is he going to get scholarships? Is he self-motivated and willing to investigate his future career seriously? And are you willing to flush 200k down the drain if not?

[Anonymous]

If you pay his bills (including room/board) and he gets into a great school, it might be worth it. But that's if he really has a passion for it, verified by internships, etc. Jobs are few and far between right now for lawyers, so that's a real issue. He would need summer jobs with prosecutors during school - and maybe he could get into the DOJ honors program (but DOJ lawyers do work hard). If he really worked his rear off networking while in school, that would help. I would suggest he try to do a clerkship with a trial judge too (I did a federal district court clerkship after I graduated - experience was invaluable and I met a lot of people working in criminal law).

I would try to steer him towards a more marketable major too in case law doesn't work out or he ends up not wanting to pursue it. Also, have him take some undergrad law-type classes. I was able to take a watered down constitutional law class and a criminal justice class in undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

Both. Oh goodness. You know what, do not pony up a penny for law school until he has worked in a legal office and knows he enjoys that work. I would say as someone who has been in his shoes, he should work in a law office at least for a year, but if a summer internship is doable I guess that's fine too. And I know this is awful, but maybe he should try a major that will give him more job options (says the former psychology major).

Yes this is causing a bit of a problem in our house right now, lol. He wants to major in history and DH thinks this a bad idea. DH wants him to study something "applicable" preferably engineering (though that ship has sailed), economics, finance, etc. I don't know much about legal careers myself though I suspect there *are* interesting things you can do with the degree, so I'm inclined to encourage him in that direction. Pretty much all I hear about irl though are people in BigLaw careers who think their jobs are dull and they despise their employers. Most of them took those jobs to make enough money to pay back their loans though. So they might not be the best examples.

I think that there will always be a need for lawyers, just less of them compared to the past. A lot of this has to do with automation. When I joined my firm, large cases required large numbers of junior lawyers to review documents. Computer programs that assist with document review have reduced that need greatly. So, here is the advice I have given to people:

1. When picking an undergraduate major, pick one in which you will do very well. The better your grades, the better your chances to get into a good law school.

2. Take one or two years off between college and law school. This gives you an opportunity to get some real work experience on your resume, which will be very helpful later on when you are looking for a job. Working on the hill is a popular choice, as is teaching English abroad for those who want to travel.

3. If your intention is to make money and you intend to practice in one of the big legal markets (NY, DC, Chicago, SF, LA) don't bother going to law school unless you can get into a first tier school. Big firms and the super prestigious boutique smaller firms hire almost exclusively from the top tier firms. If you want to be a prosecutor, then pick where you think you want to live and go for the best local area school or a first tier law school.

4. Keep in mind that only a select few attorneys will be making big money in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

Both. Oh goodness. You know what, do not pony up a penny for law school until he has worked in a legal office and knows he enjoys that work. I would say as someone who has been in his shoes, he should work in a law office at least for a year, but if a summer internship is doable I guess that's fine too. And I know this is awful, but maybe he should try a major that will give him more job options (says the former psychology major).

Yes this is causing a bit of a problem in our house right now, lol. He wants to major in history and DH thinks this a bad idea. DH wants him to study something "applicable" preferably engineering (though that ship has sailed), economics, finance, etc. I don't know much about legal careers myself though I suspect there *are* interesting things you can do with the degree, so I'm inclined to encourage him in that direction. Pretty much all I hear about irl though are people in BigLaw careers who think their jobs are dull and they despise their employers. Most of them took those jobs to make enough money to pay back their loans though. So they might not be the best examples.

Yes, there ARE interesting things you can do with a law degree. The problem is that all the people with law degrees (and there are a lot of us) want those jobs, and therefore only a teeny tiny number of people get them. This all depends on your son. Is he Harvard/Yale/Stanford law material? Is he going to get scholarships? Is he self-motivated and willing to investigate his future career seriously? And are you willing to flush 200k down the drain if not?

I honestly don't know if he is. It's hard to be that objective about your own son, you know? He goes to a mid first tier private school right now, middle of the first semester so I don't know what his grades will be like. He was very hard working and capable in HS. As far as the money, we have it so I feel like it's only right to allow him to pursue this if he really wants to. I would feel much better about it if I genuinely thought it would lead to a decent paying, interesting job for him. I know, I know that is too much to ask for in this world apparently, lol.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm a former practicing lawyer and I currently work at a T14 law school. I also have a son who's a freshman in college and another soon graduating from college. My father is also a lawyer, and so are several of my siblings.

Okay, now that I've established that I know something about this topic, I'll give some advice. I think it's too early for your son to know whether law school is a satisfying and realistic career path for him.

So much changes from freshman to senior year, and he may feel a lot differently about what he wants by that time. It's great that he's thinking law might be a good fit for him, and if it truly is a good fit he can have a rewarding career in law despite the contracting job market. I completely agree with the advice of several PPs to have him work between undergrad and law school, as this will give him a lot more time and information to make sure law (and what areas of law) appeal to him.

In the meantime, if he decides to major in history I'd suggest he double major or minor in something else to hedge his bets. What about history and economics or business, or perhaps public policy or foreign affairs? If he does this he can decide whether to go to law school or perhaps choose business school, consulting, or public policy masters down the road. I think in today's economy it's good to hedge your bets a little.

[Anonymous]

If he can get into a top 10 law school, and you think he will work hard enough to be in the top of the class then law school can be a good option.

[Anonymous]

The profession sucks beyond belief. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Yale or Fail. This is everything you need to know about law school.

My sister's friend goes to HLS right now and hates it and is thinking about dropping out after first semester.

At Yale, no grades, everyone throws themselves at your feet, get first crack at all the interesting jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's for my son who is a freshman in college. He wants to major in history and go to law school. He says he likes the idea of studying criminal law and becoming a prosecutor but I suspect his idea of this career is based on tv so I don't know. We're pushing him to apply for internships at various law offices to learn if it really is for him. What I do know is that we can afford to pay for his schooling but I'd like him to get a job at the end of it, kwim? Lol

Tbh, i haven't been following the ups and downs in the legal market much, though I'm aware that it's a bit over saturated. Does this mean there aren't enough jobs in general or there aren't enough high paying jobs that enable people to easily pay back their loans?

There aren't enough jobs, period. If your son isn't willing to open his own office as a new grad, then this isn't the field for him. There's no guarantee that he will have a job and he may have to make his own job and hustle to get his own clients. If he can't do that, and isn't willing to accept that he might only make $50,000 to $60,000 a year, then this isn't the field for him.

Unless your son loves the law beyond all other things, tell him "No."